Thats hog wash ....As far as I am concerned. Because in fact the "Hiyaah of women is in the eyes of a man". So its a misnomer, and not Islamic. But a bad Muslim assumption. It all depends on a man, dont forget Mai Mukhtarian was clad in a hijab, both physically and mentally. :#

htink i get the jist of the journal, but it looks like a goood one.


not as good as monkey poop fighter, but good none the less.

so it's not a privacy thing? i can't even see the body of the topic, i can't get into it.
i figured it was a privacy thing. i seem to have shed a few people from my circle, it happens from time to time when somoene stops paying $$$ and loose their cirlces, or when i inadvertendly bother somenoe enough to break through the usual apathy we all have.

but i had 30 people for a while there, nw i seem to be down to 29.

not sure who's missing.

accended? we're talking in relation to orion, not in relation to earth you silly bugger.
hahhaha

man, imagine my commentary being regulated by saturns position in relation to earth!! HAHAHAHAHA

how absurd!

I think Plato (and to a lesser extent, I) can't read it because there's no connection to Jazztune. So someone start making friends.

Me... I'm aloof.

Saturn has just ascended, and it has come 'round again.

and lastly, hw did he make that journal private? other people can join in (i think he's rallyingi the troops yet mine can't be rallyed)

EFFIE: tell em what you want to say and i will post it. i thought it was odd that you (especially Plato) didnt have anything to say on that subject.... especially when i put in the evolutionary biology bit.

I'm behaving v badly and being v rude to someone but he's not coming across too good and i'm feeling pretty impatient

i didn't realise you guys couldn't see that journal. can you read it at all?

i can post comments for you if you want me to.

depends on my mood and where saturn is in relation to Orion.

Plato: Is that "oddly perceptive" in a profound way or "oddly perceptive" in an allegorical way

what kinda snot makes a journal on a public village private?!

I second that!

why can't i see the single women choice or mistake journal!?!
I WANNA MAKE STUPID DISTRACTING IRRELEVANT YET ODDLY PERCEPTIVE COMMENTS ON IT DAMMIT!

I don't really have male siblings my age to compare my circumstances to...so when my mom gets all caught up about the honor of the family etc. I don't really notice it as a gendered type of responsibility...anyhow, her bouts come in phases, and we're not too active in our community--so 'honor' possibly doesn't get the same amount of air time in our family as it seems to in others (thanking my lucky stars..cuz honor seems to be relevant to every topic from who you socialize with to how you dress)

Well, the concept of honor killings has been around for centuries and not just the east but the west aswell. The west gave it up a long time ago but we unfortunately did not.

The context in which the words are used is not Islamic. I for one dont believe that its only the women that are responsible for this so called honour. The men are equally responsible. The way its dealt with in our culture is wrong and some of it has to do with the level of education.

read this: www.guardian.co.uk an article on how women in Libya who are raped get their very own detention centre. Nice! At least they're not killed.

that makes me feel ill. happy new year - who'd have thought it was 2006 with things like this still happening?

Links from this newspaper dont work here.. a format issue.. so heres the article

___________________________________ _

Friday, December 30, 2005

Killing daughters for ?honour?

MULTAN: Nazir Ahmed appears calm and unrepentant as he recounts how he slit the throats of his three young daughters and their 25-year old stepsister to salvage his family?s ?honour? - a crime that shocked Pakistan. The 40-year old laborer, speaking to The Associated Press in police detention as he was being shifted to jail, confessed to just one regret - that he didn?t murder the stepsister?s alleged lover too.

Male relatives murder hundreds of girls and women each year in the country, rights groups said on Wednesday. Such ?honuor killings? will only stop when authorities get serious about punishing perpetrators.

The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan said that more than half of such cases do not make it to court. Most are settled with cash settlements paid by relatives to the victims? families, although under a law passed last year, the minimum penalty is 10 years, the maximum death by hanging. His wife Rehmat Bibi witnessed Ahmed?s killing spree as she cradled their three month-old baby son on Friday night at their home in the cotton-growing village of Gago Mandi in Punjab. It is the latest of more than 260 such honour killings documented by the rights commission, mostly from media reports, during the first 11 months of 2005.

Bibi recounted that she was woken by a shriek as Ahmed put his hand to the mouth of his stepdaughter Muqadas and struck her in the throat with a machete. Bibi looked helplessly from the corner of the room as he then killed the three girls - Bano, eight Sumaira, seven, and Humaira, four, pausing between the slayings to brandish the bloodstained knife at his wife, warning her not to intervene or raise alarm. ?I was shivering with fear. I did not know how to save my daughters,? Bibi, sobbing, told AP by phone from the village. ?I begged my husband to spare my daughters but he said, ?If you make a noise, I will kill you.?? ?The whole night the bodies of my daughters lay in front of me. I did not have the sense to know what has happened.?

The next morning, Ahmed was arrested. Speaking exclusively to AP in the back of police pickup truck, late Tuesday as he was shifted to a prison in Multan, Ahmed showed no contrition. Appearing disheveled but composed; he said he killed Muqadas because she had committed adultery, and his daughters because he didn?t want them to do the same when they grew up. He said he bought a butcher?s knife and a machete after midday prayers on Friday and hid them in the house where he carried out the killings.

?I thought the younger girls would do what their eldest sister had done, so they should be eliminated,? he said, his hands cuffed, his face unshaven. ?We are poor people and we have nothing else to protect but our honour.? Despite Ahmed?s contention that Muqadas had committed adultery, the rights commission reported that according to local people, Muqadas had fled her husband because he had abused her and forced her to work in a brick-making factory. Muqadas was Bibi?s daughter by her first marriage to Ahmed?s brother, who died 14 years ago. Ahmed married his brother?s widow.

?Women are treated as property and those committing crimes against them do not get punished,? said the rights commission?s director, Kamla Hyat. ?The steps taken by our government have made no real difference.? Activists accuse President Pervez Musharraf, a self-styled moderate Muslim, of reluctance to reform outdated Islamised laws that make it difficult to secure convictions in rape, acid attacks and other cases of violence against women. They say police are often reluctant to prosecute, regarding such crimes as family disputes.

Statistics on honour killings are confused and imprecise, but figures from the rights commission?s web site and its officials show a marked reduction in cases this year: 267 in the first 11 months of 2005, compared with 579 during all of 2004. The Ministry of Women?s Development said it had no reliable figures. Ijaz Elahi, the ministry?s joint secretary, said the violence was decreasing and that increasing numbers of victims were reporting incidents to police or the media. Laws, including one passed last year to beef up penalties for honour killings, had been toughened, she said.

Police in Multan said they would complete their investigation into Ahmed?s case in the next two weeks and that he faces the death sentence if he is convicted for the killings and terrorising his neighborhood. Ahmed, who did not resist arrest, was unrepentant. ?I told the police that I am a honourable father and I slaughtered my dishonoured daughter and the three other girls,? he said. ?I wish that I get a chance to eliminate the boy she ran away with and set his home on fire.? ap

"Life Isn't All Ha-Ha Hee-Hee" was great drama... So it's being broadcast on BBC America then? :)