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Resonate your identity with Naseeb journals. Express your opinions, share your thoughts, post your writings and connect with like minded people through the power of expression.
A message from a descendant of Ramses
Friday, March 18, 2005
Arabs suck
Disclaimer: Arabs, read at your own discretion. This piece is objectively racist (whatever that means).
I'll start by saying that I am an Arab, descendant of Ramses someway or another (i.e. Egyptian), who believes in Allah and that prophet Muhammad is his messenger. I am also a few other things which are irrelevant here.
Now let me start over. Arabs suck.
Isn't this what we've been taught in school. Pre-Islamic Arabia was in shatters. I happen to agree.
Arabs used to burry their infant girls alive, tribes went to war for decades in a row, cursing each other in their poems, enslaving people, and being extremely narrow minded with absolutely no tolerance. I think we weren't taught wrong at school. Surrounded by two empires, Persia and Rome, none of them cared to seize control of Arabia. Nothing but headache out of doing that.
God decided to take on the challenge, and send his message (Islam) to that lousy group of people. And sure it was a challenge, a new religion to a group of intolerant, stubborn, and violent bunch of desert dwellers. Sure it was a challenge, they sent 60 men, one from each tribe, to kill the prophet. He's one of you, assholes. They threw him with rocks in AlTae'f, and drove him out of Mecca.
Eventually, God proved His point. He ruled, and His message got through. Even Arabs can be tamed with Islam. For a while there, Arabs (most of them) did understand Islam well, were able to follow it properly, to rule and govern right. Did you see what happened when we did that, a Muslim civilization arose, from Andalusia and southern Europe out to China. Spread by the sword, by the merchants, or by the good deeds and words of the people, whatever. It spread, the empire was strong, science, culture, art and humans developed, and the standard of living was reaching new peaks.
So what's gone wrong now?! (something we're not told about in schools). Arabs are being themselves again, misunderstand and misuse Islam, and even worse, claim that our ill traditions are part of Islam. Burry our women alive (instead of infant girls), go to war with each other, enslave those less fortunate than us, becoming again intolerant and narrow minded. Well, God ain't gonna challenge us again, we've had our chance. God and His messenger are not going to be there for us all the time, dammit. We're on our own now.
Its our turn to take it on again, no guidance, and no help to show us the way. Give up those fucked up old Arab/Pharaonic/Pakistani/... traditions, and embrace the tolerant Islamic values without staining them with our cultural ills.
Oh, and regarding Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism my ass. Its never gonna happen.
I should have another piece on how Egyptians suck. But just quickly, if Islam was able to tame the Arabs for a while, it stood helpless with Egyptians and couldn't mend them! And yet, some how Egyptians were able to get their country praised in the Quran a few times. We really know how to get our way with the authorities, eh!
Think Arabs are better than that? Refute my claims. Think Arabs are just that, no need to mention it again, thanks.
Ok, do I really have to be fair?! Traditional Arabs are generous and good hosts, and are the native-speakers of a great language. That doesn't balance things out though.
posted by Mohamed at 4:40 AM
15 Comments:
Hellme said:
Interesting point of view.
March 18, 2005 10:17 AM
TIC said:
So that makes you, err, neither Arab or Egyptian? Or you're both and hence you suck?
March 18, 2005 10:52 AM
Hesham said:
Being both an Egyptian and an Arab, I tend to agree with you. But I might add or dispute your reasons.
Arabs suck because they are intolerant. To me that's the main reason if not the only one. Arabs are originally nomadic tribes. Who used to live in groups and they fight and die for their tribe and/or their tribe's believes. Now have a look in any of our societies, you find people tend to make groups within groups; Islamic fundamentalists, moderate, pro-western, ahly, zamalek, fool we ta3meya VS kabab we kofta.
In most of our societies the concept of imposing my opinions and believes on everyone is very common. If you aren't doing the same then you are wrong.
The same thing happens in western societies (Australia VS new Zealand, PC vs mac, McDonald Vs burger king) but it doesn't happen on such a great scale plus the law is strong enough to make you think twice before crossing the line.
Yes, Arabs suck and I am one of them, but until we open our eyes and minds, until we live and let live, we won't get anywhere.
March 18, 2005 4:08 PM
Al Sharief said:
It's all Relative...
Oh well..., Hesham puts it well of how groups(especially Nomadic tribes) in all societies across history, committed similar acts that SUCKS even more and much worse... just an example is what the Western European White Man did to the native north and south American Indians and almost eliminated theme
The immigrated Europeans (had a civilization and were ruled by far more "developed & "civilized" monarchies and later fought each other on the Spanish-American WAR and later in 2 GREAT WARS I & II that the whole world is still suffering from it's colonialism, specially the Arabs and a lot of African nations till today.
For one I do not think the Arabs are worse than the African "tribal" groups that committed the awful atrocities that took place in Rowand few years ago under the eyesight of the leftover of the western colonial powers...
The very fact that the nomadic Arab tribes carried the message of Islam the way they did in establishing the Arab-Islamic Civilization and the way they responded to Islam at least in the early Khalifas days was very very good for a punch of desert Arab dwellers...
BTW some researchers consider the early forefathers of VERY old Egypt as the "Arabs of the Nile Valley"
The Bigger questions here are How the Arabs went a strays? and What it would take to put them back on track? The best I've seen on this
is "Shroot Al Nahdhah" or "the conditions to Rise" by Malik , an Arab North African who is an Islamic Thinker on his own rights as a contemporary democratic reformer for the Arab-Moslem nation and beyond...
Malik Bennabi is NO SUCKS
March 18, 2005 9:14 PM
DeeLiciouS said:
Agreed. Totally.
March 21, 2005 2:01 PM
praktike said:
Mohamed, it sounds like you might get along with this guy.
March 21, 2005 8:45 PM
Mohamed said:
But.. I am just an ordinary Egyptian, who simply doesn't care who's listening (most of the time).. and hey, sometimes I say pleasant things about what's going around here.
Ok, there might be some similarities with that 'Arfan guy, I just don't wanna admit it.
March 21, 2005 9:13 PM
Hani said:
Hey dude.
Quite a post. I was in Cairo back in 2002 and towards the end of the stay there i was feeling much the same as you describe.
However, there are good things which i saw there, which i don't see where i live, and bad things there which i don't see where i live. And vice-versa. I think you really ought to have lived in the Arab world, and the Western world to appreciate the good and bad of both societies.
March 23, 2005 2:26 PM
Mohamed said:
Hani, agree. I think each culture sucks in its own way.
Just happens that the way we suck is preventing us from becoming a developed/advanced nation, that's all. And that kind of annoys me.
March 23, 2005 10:23 PM
Twosret said:
Mohamed,
I'm actually offended by your post and I won't comment unless you ask for it!
T.
March 25, 2005 8:01 AM
Mohamed said:
Twosret, I've made a semi-apology here. But ofcourse, please be my guest and comment.
I just realized why you might be offended actually. You're a Christian Arab? But please explain more.
March 25, 2005 10:38 AM
Twosret said:
Yes Mohamed I'm Christian arab, and I will be back later to post how I feel about this topic. Also, the Foreigners in Cairo topic is very interesting.
Tata for now
T.
March 26, 2005 12:34 AM
Twosret said:
Mohamed,
I think you are one Arab who is really ashamed of his roots. It sounds to me that you are falling into an Arab suck depression. I would like to assure you that I am not in denial about our current situation as Arabs because of multiple factors to name a few our Arab leaders (yes I?m one of those who blame our leaders for where we are today) poverty, lack of education, the real suckers of our goodies the Spanish, English, French and recently American invasion. Those super power suckers that still plan to restrict us not to move forward and stay where we are.
You said: -?So what's gone wrong now?! (something we're not told about in schools). Arabs are being themselves again, misunderstand and misuse Islam, and even worse, claim that our ill traditions are part of Islam. ?
You are addressing here some human nature bad traits and applying it to all Arabs?. George W. Bush uses Christianity to lie to people and scare people and justify war. The crusaders did. Please identify to me a group of people that doesn?t misuse or abuse it?s religion. The Zionists did and the whole world followed and it is creating an eternal conflict through history that is causing death, war and destruction. If we follow your logic then most people around the world suck even those who doesn?t believe in God.
You said:- ?Burry our women alive (instead of infant girls), go to war with each other, enslave those less fortunate than us, becoming again intolerant and narrow minded.?
They abuse their women too in other countries you know, domestic violence, rape in America is not any better, I have to disagree with Hesham also because I live in the Midwest in a small town I happened to help in women Shelters where I live and a lot of the abusers don?t give a dime about law. It is very safe in my little town to be a lesbian so your male partner won?t kill you.
You did minimize in your post the early Arab achievements and their superiority in so many fields in the past. How can you underestimate people who have spent their lives to working so hard to achieve in the past and present and gather all the Arabs in one basket?
May be it will be good idea for you to pack and leave as you mentioned in your post. You might be a happier British invader, or French with bloody history, or an American racist and potential crusader :)
Next time you pass by Groppi in Heliopolis and see Naguib Mahfouz having his coffee at 9:00 am you need to apologize to him BIG TIME. Next time you see El-Baz on T.V. or the travel channel rating Dubai and Borg El Arab to be the top destination in the world you might think there is more than those barbarian savage Arabs in the U.A.E. Check out the tolerance of Moroccans and find out more about Azouly the Jewish advisor of the Moroccan King. Olympic gold medal winner Nawal El-Matawakal family apparently were not abusive . Hicham El-Gerroug was open minded enough to accept 2 gold medals.
I better check on that lamb for my Easter dinner ;)
T.
March 27, 2005 9:42 AM
Mohamed said:
Great to read your feedback Twosret. No, I'm not ashamed of my roots. Definetely not. But I love admitting my faults, just love it, and Arabs are not very good at that. All I hear of Arabs is hollow pride, and it doesn't get us anywhere.
Yes, I have fallen into an "Arab suck depression". Who hasn't! And I know I'll dissapoint you further when I tell you that our Arab leaders are part of the problem, yes, but we (the people) are a bigger part of it.
Agree, big time apologies to Naguib Mahfouz, Usama El-Baz (whom I've actually seen sitting on the sidewalk in the Opera, not just on TV, or do you mean Farouk), and Nawal El-Matawakal, and all the other great Arab individuals (many many others). We have great people, that's for sure. I mentioned some positive aspects of Arabs, didn't I ;) There have always been, and there will always be great Arabs. Sure, even in today's dire state we're in, there are still great individuals.
As I mentioned in a previous comment, each culture sucks in its own way. Implerialists suck, and Zionists suck, sure, but they're not the topic of this post ;) I should really start working on that complex post that I wanted to write for a while on why Egyptians suck (or "What's wrong with Egyptians"). But the conclusion is, we don't suck as individuals, but we suck big time as a group, we suck whenever we get into any collective effort. This is when the worst of each individual comes out.
Again, every culture sucks in its own way, but the culture that leads and advances is the one that overcomes its critical negative aspects, especially those aspects that stalls and inhibits its development. We, as a culture were able to do that once (for whatever reason), and overcame our ills, but it seems to me that we're far from that today.
Don't blame me if your lamb was overcooked :)
March 27, 2005 1:34 PM
TheQueen said:
Hi everybody,
What a great blog!Compliments to all of you. It's great to find an Arab online forum with a free exchange of ideas on such a wide variety of issues.
Of course I only found it because I googled the words Arabs+suck but maybe we don't suck so much after all!
Actually I think Arabs are not better or worse than anyone else. Our problem is just that we think we are. We lack the culture of self-criticism. We blame everyone else but ourselves for our problems. We're always the victims. It's always a conspiracy. And so we don't try to do anything about the fact that we're at the bottom of the world. We just sit & complain & wait for the conspiracy to stop. PATHETIC!
The writer of this post is right in everything he says. It's sad but I really don't think he has anything to apologize for.
One more point Arab nationalism will never happen & that is a good thing. Arab nationalism is a racist concept & completely ignores the existence of non-Arabs within the borders of so many supposedly Arab countries. We should think in terms of multiculturalism because the fact is we are many cultures instead of trying to stuff one uniform culture down everyone's throat.
Have a nice day everyone.
June 08, 2005 7:54 AM
Arabs suck
Disclaimer: Arabs, read at your own discretion. This piece is objectively racist (whatever that means).
I'll start by saying that I am an Arab, descendant of Ramses someway or another (i.e. Egyptian), who believes in Allah and that prophet Muhammad is his messenger. I am also a few other things which are irrelevant here.
Now let me start over. Arabs suck.
Isn't this what we've been taught in school. Pre-Islamic Arabia was in shatters. I happen to agree.
Arabs used to burry their infant girls alive, tribes went to war for decades in a row, cursing each other in their poems, enslaving people, and being extremely narrow minded with absolutely no tolerance. I think we weren't taught wrong at school. Surrounded by two empires, Persia and Rome, none of them cared to seize control of Arabia. Nothing but headache out of doing that.
God decided to take on the challenge, and send his message (Islam) to that lousy group of people. And sure it was a challenge, a new religion to a group of intolerant, stubborn, and violent bunch of desert dwellers. Sure it was a challenge, they sent 60 men, one from each tribe, to kill the prophet. He's one of you, assholes. They threw him with rocks in AlTae'f, and drove him out of Mecca.
Eventually, God proved His point. He ruled, and His message got through. Even Arabs can be tamed with Islam. For a while there, Arabs (most of them) did understand Islam well, were able to follow it properly, to rule and govern right. Did you see what happened when we did that, a Muslim civilization arose, from Andalusia and southern Europe out to China. Spread by the sword, by the merchants, or by the good deeds and words of the people, whatever. It spread, the empire was strong, science, culture, art and humans developed, and the standard of living was reaching new peaks.
So what's gone wrong now?! (something we're not told about in schools). Arabs are being themselves again, misunderstand and misuse Islam, and even worse, claim that our ill traditions are part of Islam. Burry our women alive (instead of infant girls), go to war with each other, enslave those less fortunate than us, becoming again intolerant and narrow minded. Well, God ain't gonna challenge us again, we've had our chance. God and His messenger are not going to be there for us all the time, dammit. We're on our own now.
Its our turn to take it on again, no guidance, and no help to show us the way. Give up those fucked up old Arab/Pharaonic/Pakistani/... traditions, and embrace the tolerant Islamic values without staining them with our cultural ills.
Oh, and regarding Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism my ass. Its never gonna happen.
I should have another piece on how Egyptians suck. But just quickly, if Islam was able to tame the Arabs for a while, it stood helpless with Egyptians and couldn't mend them! And yet, some how Egyptians were able to get their country praised in the Quran a few times. We really know how to get our way with the authorities, eh!
Think Arabs are better than that? Refute my claims. Think Arabs are just that, no need to mention it again, thanks.
Ok, do I really have to be fair?! Traditional Arabs are generous and good hosts, and are the native-speakers of a great language. That doesn't balance things out though.
posted by Mohamed at 4:40 AM
15 Comments:
Hellme said:
Interesting point of view.
March 18, 2005 10:17 AM
TIC said:
So that makes you, err, neither Arab or Egyptian? Or you're both and hence you suck?
March 18, 2005 10:52 AM
Hesham said:
Being both an Egyptian and an Arab, I tend to agree with you. But I might add or dispute your reasons.
Arabs suck because they are intolerant. To me that's the main reason if not the only one. Arabs are originally nomadic tribes. Who used to live in groups and they fight and die for their tribe and/or their tribe's believes. Now have a look in any of our societies, you find people tend to make groups within groups; Islamic fundamentalists, moderate, pro-western, ahly, zamalek, fool we ta3meya VS kabab we kofta.
In most of our societies the concept of imposing my opinions and believes on everyone is very common. If you aren't doing the same then you are wrong.
The same thing happens in western societies (Australia VS new Zealand, PC vs mac, McDonald Vs burger king) but it doesn't happen on such a great scale plus the law is strong enough to make you think twice before crossing the line.
Yes, Arabs suck and I am one of them, but until we open our eyes and minds, until we live and let live, we won't get anywhere.
March 18, 2005 4:08 PM
Al Sharief said:
It's all Relative...
Oh well..., Hesham puts it well of how groups(especially Nomadic tribes) in all societies across history, committed similar acts that SUCKS even more and much worse... just an example is what the Western European White Man did to the native north and south American Indians and almost eliminated theme
The immigrated Europeans (had a civilization and were ruled by far more "developed & "civilized" monarchies and later fought each other on the Spanish-American WAR and later in 2 GREAT WARS I & II that the whole world is still suffering from it's colonialism, specially the Arabs and a lot of African nations till today.
For one I do not think the Arabs are worse than the African "tribal" groups that committed the awful atrocities that took place in Rowand few years ago under the eyesight of the leftover of the western colonial powers...
The very fact that the nomadic Arab tribes carried the message of Islam the way they did in establishing the Arab-Islamic Civilization and the way they responded to Islam at least in the early Khalifas days was very very good for a punch of desert Arab dwellers...
BTW some researchers consider the early forefathers of VERY old Egypt as the "Arabs of the Nile Valley"
The Bigger questions here are How the Arabs went a strays? and What it would take to put them back on track? The best I've seen on this
is "Shroot Al Nahdhah" or "the conditions to Rise" by Malik , an Arab North African who is an Islamic Thinker on his own rights as a contemporary democratic reformer for the Arab-Moslem nation and beyond...
Malik Bennabi is NO SUCKS
March 18, 2005 9:14 PM
DeeLiciouS said:
Agreed. Totally.
March 21, 2005 2:01 PM
praktike said:
Mohamed, it sounds like you might get along with this guy.
March 21, 2005 8:45 PM
Mohamed said:
But.. I am just an ordinary Egyptian, who simply doesn't care who's listening (most of the time).. and hey, sometimes I say pleasant things about what's going around here.
Ok, there might be some similarities with that 'Arfan guy, I just don't wanna admit it.
March 21, 2005 9:13 PM
Hani said:
Hey dude.
Quite a post. I was in Cairo back in 2002 and towards the end of the stay there i was feeling much the same as you describe.
However, there are good things which i saw there, which i don't see where i live, and bad things there which i don't see where i live. And vice-versa. I think you really ought to have lived in the Arab world, and the Western world to appreciate the good and bad of both societies.
March 23, 2005 2:26 PM
Mohamed said:
Hani, agree. I think each culture sucks in its own way.
Just happens that the way we suck is preventing us from becoming a developed/advanced nation, that's all. And that kind of annoys me.
March 23, 2005 10:23 PM
Twosret said:
Mohamed,
I'm actually offended by your post and I won't comment unless you ask for it!
T.
March 25, 2005 8:01 AM
Mohamed said:
Twosret, I've made a semi-apology here. But ofcourse, please be my guest and comment.
I just realized why you might be offended actually. You're a Christian Arab? But please explain more.
March 25, 2005 10:38 AM
Twosret said:
Yes Mohamed I'm Christian arab, and I will be back later to post how I feel about this topic. Also, the Foreigners in Cairo topic is very interesting.
Tata for now
T.
March 26, 2005 12:34 AM
Twosret said:
Mohamed,
I think you are one Arab who is really ashamed of his roots. It sounds to me that you are falling into an Arab suck depression. I would like to assure you that I am not in denial about our current situation as Arabs because of multiple factors to name a few our Arab leaders (yes I?m one of those who blame our leaders for where we are today) poverty, lack of education, the real suckers of our goodies the Spanish, English, French and recently American invasion. Those super power suckers that still plan to restrict us not to move forward and stay where we are.
You said: -?So what's gone wrong now?! (something we're not told about in schools). Arabs are being themselves again, misunderstand and misuse Islam, and even worse, claim that our ill traditions are part of Islam. ?
You are addressing here some human nature bad traits and applying it to all Arabs?. George W. Bush uses Christianity to lie to people and scare people and justify war. The crusaders did. Please identify to me a group of people that doesn?t misuse or abuse it?s religion. The Zionists did and the whole world followed and it is creating an eternal conflict through history that is causing death, war and destruction. If we follow your logic then most people around the world suck even those who doesn?t believe in God.
You said:- ?Burry our women alive (instead of infant girls), go to war with each other, enslave those less fortunate than us, becoming again intolerant and narrow minded.?
They abuse their women too in other countries you know, domestic violence, rape in America is not any better, I have to disagree with Hesham also because I live in the Midwest in a small town I happened to help in women Shelters where I live and a lot of the abusers don?t give a dime about law. It is very safe in my little town to be a lesbian so your male partner won?t kill you.
You did minimize in your post the early Arab achievements and their superiority in so many fields in the past. How can you underestimate people who have spent their lives to working so hard to achieve in the past and present and gather all the Arabs in one basket?
May be it will be good idea for you to pack and leave as you mentioned in your post. You might be a happier British invader, or French with bloody history, or an American racist and potential crusader :)
Next time you pass by Groppi in Heliopolis and see Naguib Mahfouz having his coffee at 9:00 am you need to apologize to him BIG TIME. Next time you see El-Baz on T.V. or the travel channel rating Dubai and Borg El Arab to be the top destination in the world you might think there is more than those barbarian savage Arabs in the U.A.E. Check out the tolerance of Moroccans and find out more about Azouly the Jewish advisor of the Moroccan King. Olympic gold medal winner Nawal El-Matawakal family apparently were not abusive . Hicham El-Gerroug was open minded enough to accept 2 gold medals.
I better check on that lamb for my Easter dinner ;)
T.
March 27, 2005 9:42 AM
Mohamed said:
Great to read your feedback Twosret. No, I'm not ashamed of my roots. Definetely not. But I love admitting my faults, just love it, and Arabs are not very good at that. All I hear of Arabs is hollow pride, and it doesn't get us anywhere.
Yes, I have fallen into an "Arab suck depression". Who hasn't! And I know I'll dissapoint you further when I tell you that our Arab leaders are part of the problem, yes, but we (the people) are a bigger part of it.
Agree, big time apologies to Naguib Mahfouz, Usama El-Baz (whom I've actually seen sitting on the sidewalk in the Opera, not just on TV, or do you mean Farouk), and Nawal El-Matawakal, and all the other great Arab individuals (many many others). We have great people, that's for sure. I mentioned some positive aspects of Arabs, didn't I ;) There have always been, and there will always be great Arabs. Sure, even in today's dire state we're in, there are still great individuals.
As I mentioned in a previous comment, each culture sucks in its own way. Implerialists suck, and Zionists suck, sure, but they're not the topic of this post ;) I should really start working on that complex post that I wanted to write for a while on why Egyptians suck (or "What's wrong with Egyptians"). But the conclusion is, we don't suck as individuals, but we suck big time as a group, we suck whenever we get into any collective effort. This is when the worst of each individual comes out.
Again, every culture sucks in its own way, but the culture that leads and advances is the one that overcomes its critical negative aspects, especially those aspects that stalls and inhibits its development. We, as a culture were able to do that once (for whatever reason), and overcame our ills, but it seems to me that we're far from that today.
Don't blame me if your lamb was overcooked :)
March 27, 2005 1:34 PM
TheQueen said:
Hi everybody,
What a great blog!Compliments to all of you. It's great to find an Arab online forum with a free exchange of ideas on such a wide variety of issues.
Of course I only found it because I googled the words Arabs+suck but maybe we don't suck so much after all!
Actually I think Arabs are not better or worse than anyone else. Our problem is just that we think we are. We lack the culture of self-criticism. We blame everyone else but ourselves for our problems. We're always the victims. It's always a conspiracy. And so we don't try to do anything about the fact that we're at the bottom of the world. We just sit & complain & wait for the conspiracy to stop. PATHETIC!
The writer of this post is right in everything he says. It's sad but I really don't think he has anything to apologize for.
One more point Arab nationalism will never happen & that is a good thing. Arab nationalism is a racist concept & completely ignores the existence of non-Arabs within the borders of so many supposedly Arab countries. We should think in terms of multiculturalism because the fact is we are many cultures instead of trying to stuff one uniform culture down everyone's throat.
Have a nice day everyone.
June 08, 2005 7:54 AM
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