Allah yihdeena jamee3an

I feel with you Alia, I am not denying it, I cant even watch the news any more...how do you think any person with a heart or conscience felt when Mohammed Al Durra (I believe that was his name) and his father got gunned when they were scared clutching to each other up against a wall....

It definitely is a terrible catastrophy, but in all honesty, God is either testing or punishing us (or both!)...you should see how Palestinians are living their lives everywhere in the world, everyone is so materialistic and it's all about making money in the middle east for the father and leaving his kids here to get lost in this world and with the meaningless things.

God definitely is sending us a message, it's up to us to take it or not.

About the Zionists, I am telling you this from the experience in my lfietime...they are deceiving and will stop at nothing to make us look bad...if you honestly think they will let US live in peace or create peace we are only fooling ourselves (and no offense intended to anyone). These arent a people of peace, or Sharon a man of peace (GAG!~) as Bush put it (like anything he ever says clicks into any human being's brain with an IQ higher than a snail's)...

I would lvoe to see the suffering end, but realistically, as long as we are dealing with the scum of the earth in our country, and they have the power, ....the deception will continue, we will look bad under every circumstance, and you know what?....if our people stop the bombings and whatnot...they will send spies (our very own Palestinian people) to brainwash kids off the streets to do these acts and make them think it's the right thing to do...under their OWN agenda making it happen...(By the way, this is happening as we speak today)

Anyway, you dont have to look very far, you ask the people who have lived there and see what they have experienced...people have suffered so much I dont think they NEED to exaggerate or lie, if that's even possible)....the sky is the limit for the suffering when it comes to these so-called humans we are dealing with.

Allah yisa3idna o yihdeena.

I agree with you TK. But the Zionists are empowered extremists who have assumed quasi-political "legitimacy" (uuugh, I shutter even saying it). We are doing them a FAVOR by turning violence onto ourselves. So screw them, let's live and prosper. Let's have real futures. Let's not live their madness for them, which only assuages the guilt the world should rightfully feel for transplanting and arming them.

I don't know about you (and I certainly mean no offense) but I'm tired of watching videos of children getting their heads blow of for throwing rocks at a tank. I grieve for wailing Arab women clutching yet another fallen son/brother/husband. I don't give a damn how the Israelis live---let them turn their evil inward---I just want to believe that the return to a normal life is possible for the Palestinian people.

Fatah may have failed within 10 years of government, but what has been accomplished by 50 years of death? Ya Allah, show us a better way.

Remember, our people want peace, maybe some israeli "civilians" want peace...but under Zionist rules and their personal propogandas and agendas....I am telling you it wont happen.

Both you guys used key words...UNDER MUSLIM RULe...where the jews arent as powerful to use their deception (in which they even DID try and use by assassination attempts...some being successful, of the Prophet s.a.w. and numerous sahaba). It's under the rules now where they DO have more credibility that I truly think it is impossible for them to bring peace to the table. Besides, most of these jews there now do NOT belong there, they are europeans for generations...it's like saying the aqsa is the second holy site so any muslim belongs in Jerusalem.

actually in the time of the prophet, there were 3 assasination attempts on his life accredit to different Jewish groups. I am not sure the prophit lived in peace with them ( there were few wars also). there were few periods when The Abasieen ruled and in andalus that the jews accepted and prospered under Muslim rulers. UT there are other periods when they were kicked out or forced to change their religion. Still Muslims did not treat the jews as bad as the Nasi's, or what happened during the inquisition period.

TK: Rasulallah (S) lived peacefully with the Jews under his rule as did the Sahaba and various khalifah for hundreds of years, all of whom were no doubt better guided than us. The hadith to which you refer (assuming that its authentic which I don't as many are not) would be considered sunnah rather than shariah. It would place the Jews geographically near where they are right now and does not indicate that a true and lasting peace should be anticipated. However, who is to say that it applies to the present or that other forms of "peace" (such as a truce) are not viable options. I am not saying this to be argumentative but only because I do pray for a day when Palestinian men, women, and children are free from oppression and slaughter, whether from the Israelis or any other group.

the yanks just said that "hamas jepordizes a palestinian state"

f.king aszholes. They played the democracy game fair and square and won it hands down. not eh Yanks are pissed that Hamas won't wh.re itself out to thier aid money.

the aid has been an impediment to a Soverign Palestinian nation it will probably get much worse before it gets better, but if things don't change drastically now, then there is no hope of them ever getting better, only worse, maybe slower than otherwise, but worse none-theless

Khalid Mish'al, the head of the political bureau of Hamas:

" We will not sell our people or principles for foreign aid
Palestinians voted for Hamas because of our refusal to give up their rights. But we are ready to make a just peace"

The Guardian, www.guardian.co.uk

If you guys read carefully in the shari'a, from my understanding, peace is an impossible task with people so backstabbing, twofaced, and evil (even historically) as the ones we are dealing with noqw. They will be canniving and claim they want peace only to find ways to make it look like the Palestinians are the ones asking for trouble. The problem is not just within us (that is a problem of its own), but the deception we are dealing with can only be overcome in one way insha Allah...and unfortunately, I dont think that will be peace. Just remember something, Allah subhanahu wa Ta'ala doesnt curse a WHOLE PEOPLE unless they have truly crossed the line and arer on his bad side. He wouldnt curse them for any small reason. There are the same people we are dealing with which I believe will make any peace deal turn into aggression to decapitate as many of our people as possible. Bottom line: as hard as we try and as much as we may clear our intentions towards peace...The Zionists dont want peace, and they'll make sure it never happens.

I'm a peace lover but not naively so, insha Allah. Forgiveness is not a precondition for peace. No one is saying to roll over and thank the Israelis for years of death and oppression. But I would humbly suggest that Palestinian suffering and death means very little to much of the world, who have already succeeding in divorcing themselves from the conflict. So why continue a course of self destruction. If Hamas can bring peace (even if its through worldwide fear of the opposite), then Allahu Alim. But no culture has ever prospered by obliterating itself through violence. Peace is a gift that Palestinians can give themselves. I agree with Ammoori on this being a moment of truth.

I think Hammas is Savvy but they need to be innovative to sustain their political power and they will have to compromize some core beliefs to the better of their people. I am actually happy they won, because its the MOMENT of TRUTH for organizations like Hammas, Hizb Allah, or the Muslim Brotherhood. Can they rule? will see

you havent seen how they would react to being in charge of a country/...as a rebel group you can only do so much.

What I don't understand about groups that are conservative like Hammas why do they attack the West for their obvious in adquetes, while they don't embrase the the technological, health, and all what the west has contributed positively to society.
I think groups like that are great as a response on corruption but they are anti progress which on the long run is a terrible thing.
Can anybody imagine any major scientific discovery can be done under strict closed socities?!

MG, Fatah has failed, a change was inevitable...unfortunately I dont think if you put anyone of our people the way they stand now it will make a difference. And if you truly believed in the peace process with the israelis "owning" the country...then you have to read or scriptures again and realize this isnt the way we will gain it back....not through some temporary fake deals.

Here is a general scenario for those who agree with peace.... if someone came to your house, and said "I'm invading your house by hook or by crook" (the latter being more likely of course since no person in their right mind would surrender their home easily)....then this invader rapes your wife, kills your children and massacres the household..and then says..."you know what?...I'm looking like a bad person,....here you can have the little corner area in the basement, and we call it a truce" .... how would you react to this people?

emm... that last post has nothing to do with that last link. entirely seperate posts

From day one, the peace process has been an instrument to have palestinians sign away their rights.

Hammas should reject the worlds call to recognize israel's existance as a valid state until the Israeli's first recognize the Palestinian Nation, the people and the refugees (including my asz) as being a people disposesed of thier nation. They should recognize severeignty of the people, and they should define their state with a constitution (israel doesn't have one)

After it is defined, then, and only then, should hammas see whether this definition is worthy of recognition.
Asking palestinians to recognize the validity of the Israeli state is tantamount to asking Jews to recognize the validity of the Nazi state.
same sh.t, different jackboots.

hammas is a good group. the people who work there, incliding the yanks in USAID, and ANERA (a group i suspect of being missionaries in disguise) have said that hammas runs a better civil and legislative sturcture than does the PA.

Considering everyting hte PA has gotten us thus far, alhamdulilah, it was time for a change. the Peace Process was nothign but a slow strangulation of the Palestinian state. every step of it, they took actions to fracture it, and dismemeber any possibility of nationhood.
Fatah couldn't control it, they where pawns of the game, but thye did play along.

hopefully hammas will do better, inshallah they won't fall into the same traps....

The Israeli's a wiley baztards, the Americans are experts with their strings.
The world is blind.
it's up to the Palestinians to figure it out on our own, and Fatah was entirely incapable of doing so.

Silkysword.. i'll let u speak now...but lets just sit back and watch what progress "your" fundamentalist will do to the region/ppl... i will not mouth off anything worthy or unworthy at this time, i'll just sit back and watch the plot line to c if it will make sense in the end or not!