Arrack: ?Our World is NOT just limited to north america or UK....it is the whole world.? ? I think, it is really a broad thought & I appreciate...for thinking such broadly!..:). Arrack, I wish...May ur dream come true someday!..:)

Abshaw : I appreciate ur thoughts..:)...there seem to be...some concerned & good thoughts involved in ur comments...but honestly speaking...Abshaw, I am lost!..:)....the way ur thoughts r directed,...an ordinary girl like me, would understand things,...that r abstract or specific to the point, in a better way. :)

mnfatima: if the historic occurance of any thing is non-existant, then never does qualify for such issues. Anyways, coming back to topic. Solution(s): now that we have the problem framed, its easy to start the remedy; the cure though is multi-prong. The first step would be committment, everyone involved has to be committed, as the path is an unfruitful one, it is long, it is dry, it is rough. Many have come and gone, and only been able to chance one person's view. To be able to isolate ourselves from the same group of people (who have struggled fruitlessly in the past) we have to have a better, functional, and visioned plan in hand / in works. The multiple zone attack has to be simultanious on all fronts. Financial, educational, religeous, and political. Up till such time, we plan, design, recruit to deploy on the effective day. The preperation now is the first priority. Priority to collect, preserve, accumulate and analyse for an effective campain with fruitful results. Once the numbers start flowing, then we can move to the educational front, placement of effective and deployable educational infrastructure will become our baseline at that point. That module will bring the next leaders free of individual thought process, but collective thoughts and benefits will be achieved for mutual goals. This will also help in getting involved into the religious screen with educated adults, teens, and kids on our back. Also this will serve as the supply cut off for all the so called jihadees and are defaming many nations and the religion it self. Results will be overwhelming. A financialy strong community, with educated youth, and religiosly pious (adaptive) group of people behind will take no time in toppling any hollow political stage. What say you?

Arrack: I first would like to clear this point...:)...?Muslim Unity? mean ?Muslims be united?....kindly do not link this to ?Idealism?..:)...Idealism is next to idiotism to me :). Secondly U R very much correct...many conferences,? much efforts...& much politics was played to bring all the European countries together...we r all aware of it right?..:) & yes it did happen!...Isn?t it ?this bring together? -a first step towards ?Unity?? Abshaw: Acc to me ?never? is a strong word :)...it closes the mind & second, it lacks initiation...just my learning from the past/History.

Abshaw: Fair comment and analysis of the past history. How do U think can we rise to the situation? How did the Europeans rise to the "Utopianism" of peace and unity and corporation? Pointing out an issue is one thing...proposing a solution out of it is another! :)

Nothing wrong with painting the picture the way you want. :o) but, thinking togather and working togather are 2 totally opposite things, and as Muslims we can think togather , but never work togather, as we are more attracted to money than pride. Plus according to the islamic scriptures, the "fitna" of this "umma" is "maal" (money). So where ever a bunch of muslims group togather to collect money, there is alway big big problems. History is full of incidents from the beginning of islam to sala-ud-din ayubi to mughals to now, where ever a historic turning point is achieved for the ummah to take the leadership we will see that money, maal, power, bribery played the biggest role in keeping the muslim ummah at the ocean bed. The question to actually ask is that have we really learned from the lessons of the past, can we rise to the occasion, when needed?

MnFatima: U R allowed to dream "loudly" on Naseeb villages! :) I agree its a very long fetched goal and is very much up there in the Utopian category....when thinking of an "idealism" such as "Muslim Unity"...its okie to do that. What do U call (W)Europe of today? I am sure just 60/70 years back when the 2nd world war was being fought there...this thought of european unity would also maybe be classified as "Utopian".

Asfandyar:..seems utopian! (sorry, I am being rude here). It?s good...at last u r all giving a thought on ?Unity?...?Muslim Unity!?.

Promakhos: I would disagree with U that its impossible! Yeah i agree with U that to date there has been just "talk & fantizing" of unity for almost last couple of hundred years. The biggest reason for that is that muslims living in the muslim world dont know each other! Yeah they know that in Indonesia & Bangladesh & Malaysia & Morrocco & ...there are muslims...but they dont know any of them...so who can there be an unity? There is NO people to people contact. What i noticed when I came to study in the US from Pakistan among the first people who i befriended were muslims in general much more than the goras/locals. That was the first time i met Arabs, Turks, Iranis, Indonesians, Malays and the real bonding started at that time. The Arabs...started relating to the Kashmir issue and got indoctrinated "against the hindus" :) & vice versa Pakistanis better understanding & relating to the Palestinian issue. Point is that a proper stage needs to be set...such as Universities in Muslim countries where muslims from other countries would come and interact...and when they go back to their own countries...not only would the bonding with the other muslim countries be stronger...but then the same ppl would be the future leaders in political and economic fields...which would promote both trade and political co-operation amoung muslims. I think the UNITY is very much POSSIBLE...we just need to create the proper conditions for that.

Muslim people need to learn to get along first and then maybe..

I don't mean Charity by the literal definition. Charity can be so much more than handouts

Its also a good idea to find like-minded individuals, develop teams, thinktanks, pressure groups and the like.

I agree Arrack! We avoid responsibilities by blaming others. However, i believe segregated good deeds are not as powerful as efforts to change policies, institutions that affect a whole lot. But yes, i believe we are very much capable of achieving what we want to and can change the course of actions, overcome all hurdles to reach our goals if only we have the desire to do so. And when we gather the courage to take an initiative, Allah helps us all the way through, and we see ourselves being followed. Yes, each of us can lead and bring about changes.

Arrack- charity at home is exactly how I said below to start with. Labs-yes, looking at the Jewish and Indian model and compare them would be good. Don't know about the UK, but the Indian lobby in the US is very strong. The Jewish community has met antagonism, which is reality. All changes or attempts to change will have resisitance. So be ready for it :>)

The Muslims Ummah...the way I look at it today is not only both leaderless, but one without a vision without a purpose not only for themselves but for humanity in general. Just like the profession of becoming an imam (maulvi) & looking after the mosque in Pakistan has been delegated to the lower/uneducated class...we have done the same thing to our vision and leadership...delegated it to the fanatics who have hijacked & distorted our religion. We have become a people who are ONLY concerned about our individual well being & dont feel responsible for the Ummah. I think its time we take it back from them!!

LABS: I agree with you to be all inclusive with the non-muslims...i would say by all means. But expect a helping hand from them, don't expect them to provide leadership for causes or malaises which are impacting Muslims all over the world. They say "charity begins at home", so i would say one should start by becoming self conncious of the collective responsibility which Islam places on us of being a muslim & then start in whatever way you could contribute: local charity or one back-home.

FON: You talk about leadership without followership? Recent experiences in Pakistan...Sahukat Khanum, Ibrar's hospital, Citizen's foundation & Zindagi trust Sattar Edhi have shown that when individuals take things in their own hands to make a difference, people in general supported it very wholeheartedly. I was actually just yesterday listening to a documentary on Citizenship Foundation (TCF) who started very small 10 years back (just 5 small school in karachi) and Mashallah today they are running 250 schools and aiming to go upto 1000 schools & this was done with average people's donations like you and me. Hence, the point is the followership becomes a reality when a good, honest and a sincere leadership emerges.

LABS i doubt you're average palestinian will agree that the jews have achieved what they have in israel 'without being antagonistic to the local population'. But i certainly agree with you in terms of what they achieved world wide...considering they started off with virtually nada.

I also think we can learn a lot from the Jewish example.. communities which have settled around the world, starting off ghettoised but eventually reaching a position of strength/ power in finance/ politics and the media to the extent that they can fund a Jewish state/ look out for the interests of poorer Jews in their community.. and to a large extent they've done this while living overseas.. AND they've achieved a lot of this without being antagonistic to the local population (unlike some 'Islamic' organisations I can think of in the UK)

I agree with the general consensus so far.. unfortunately Arrack, volunteering in your local (Muslim) school or in a charity.. or giving to charity means you are helping just a few.. (although teaching in Pakistan sounds like a great idea).. what we need is a more organised, concerted, widespread, collective (fat chance) movement which will harness those with the best brains/ willpower/ intentions and allow us to act on a common goal.. I agree with Irfani that we should be more inclusive and act with our neighbours in the West, and invite them to participate in our cause. I think the Muslim state argument is a red herring.. there's no such thing as a Muslim state.. nor will there ever be unless the Muslim Ummah sort themselves out first..