zdravo Prijatelj, I wasnt able to write last 2 weeks.I didnt read the whole book indeed. I skimmed the The Noels Malcolm book and Alija ?zetbegovic's Inescapable Questions after Bagus had told me that I should go library and read Bosna History. :) Our library has Noel Malcolms,?zetbegovics, Richard Hoolbrokes and various Turkish writers about Bosna. My idea about that book is Catholic biased and against Tito.
You are right about womens situation in West, but in the East Women is regarded as second class citizen. In Arabic countries even women are not treated as they are citizens, no write to vote, no driving license, no right to divorce.
Attaturk is wrong spelling, Atat?rk or Ataturk is accurate.full name is Mustafa Kemal Atat?rk.Atat?rk is our nations leader like Izetbegovic of Bosna. I am a kemalist, who follows Ataturks path, derived from name Kemal of Atat?rk.Actually Atat?rks path is not westernization, modernisation or democratisation, are the the goals.Kemalism has six significant fetaures, Republicism (against kingdom), Public Democracy (against Oligarchy), Secularism (against Fundemantalism),State Entersprises beyond Private sector ( a kind of mixed Economy), Patriotism and National Sovereignity, and Reformism. Owing the Atat?rk reforms, we are moving towards to European Union.Women can vote and be elected since 1934, contrast to other Middle Eastern states.Women have broadest rights in middle East, even than Israel.Turkey is 1 of 2 democracies in the Middle East, other Israel.
Current situation in Turkey, kemalism is losing power against Natioalism and Islamism.Islamist party AKP( Justice and Development party) came to power in 2002.so being a Kemalist is hard job in Turkey nowadays.

hey dude, i didnt know about malcolms writing slant! we all know about the subjugation of women in islam. but the rate of exorbitant rape in teh western world of women is worse. just not as hyped up as the west wants.
whats your opinion on attaturks path that he has taken turkey towards the west?

I have never been in Bosnia but I interested in Bosnian culture and history. The relations between Bosnia and Turkey are special.Maybe that is the reason why I joined Bosna village.
I was thinking that Bosnians hate Yugoslavijas communist past and Tito, so observations of Celestine surpsrised me. Thats good to hear that a muslim majority nation favores egalitarianism. It is fact that Turkey and Arabic countries are imitating monopoly capitalism or unfair economic systems of western countries. It is good to hear from Bosna.
Noel Malcolms writing is biased. We understand that he hates Tito from that book. He is favor of Katholic Croatians.
I appreciate the womans role in Bosnian society.Women have many rights like another European countries. Unfortunately other Muslims are subjugating women.

its interesting what you wrote - i read a brilliant called bosnia by noel malcolm that summarizes almost everythign from pre bogomil times to the assasination of the archduke ferdinand. - a lot of what you said. the idea of "devirsirme" fascinated me - its what galvanized the pasha to go back adn build that bridge over drina. i guess the opportunity to serve in teh ottoman army must have been fascinating ( the ottomans best soldiers came fro mthere)
its is a fascinating mixmatch of ppl - always amazes me - a beautiul race. ofbviously not as good lookign as us kashmiris but getting there no doubt ;)
i went to tuzla, shepak, and bjelina in 2004 - extremely beautiful - especialy tuzla ... old salt minging town but so diverse had a realy rough feel to it. a friend of mine was in bjelina in 92 (?) when arkans pricks went in using that town as the pivotal springboad for the country.
what i wanted a better understanding of was what your opinion was of teh charecter of muslims having been brought up in a "communal" atmosphere? teh excess of the west sickens me and apar from teh atheism, the ideals communism aspires towards go completely against that - that mixed with an islamic upbringing have in my opiion produced an amazing race of people. its different when you are persecuted for your religious beliefs also. you hold on to that thing that you are attaked for a lot more dearly. after the tube attacks in london, muslims have begun to pay a lot more attendtion to their wn religion in response to the questions profered by the average englishman.

The fact is that Bosnian Muslims embraced kommunism/socialism dearly. I will never argue this point, coz I am a witness to it.
But, whether this was because of the fact that Bosnian Muslims are warm and nice, or because of the fact that the egalitarianism as an ideal of kommunism had its similarities with similar concepts in Islam, I am not so sure.

I would say that Bosnian Muslims found its saviors in egalitarian idealists of early kommunists.
If you look at the Bosnia and its people historically. Bosnia and Bosnians readily embraced Islam when it came with Turks.
Reasons are many:
- Bosnian specific Bogumil kind of Christianityfound a lot of similarities in Islam.
- On the other side Bosnian churc was under threat from Rome (threatened with crusade).

Bosnian nobility realised that choosing Turk/Islamic side will not only save the population, preserve specific cultural/religious heritage, but also save their identitiy and possesions (of the nobles). This has actually happened. Bosnia enjoyed special status within Ottoman Empire. Bosnian Language was if not official but close to official language of Ottoman Porta.

Now, several hundred years later, Bosnian Muslims threatened, this time, from two sides (Serb and Croat extreme and agressive nationalism in II World War) have opted for Kommunism as the lesser of many evils...

The fact that they are, in your words "warm and nice people" has little to do with that (only the part necessery to convince people). Being at the crossroads of civilisations and empires, a country where different faiths co-existed (without any religion dominanting), where people have spoken differenc languages (arabic - language of law politics, turkish & ladino/spanish - language of trade, persian - language of literature, bosnian language of all)...all this has maybe made these people more self-confident and as a result tolerant and warm.
On the other hand, Bosnia has never been too strong to repel enemies who have been chopping of peace by peace of its body, and was on account of this forced to make coalitions with anyone who will guarantee its continuity....

This is really hard topic, and it is not easy to put everything in few paragraphs....

/bagus