yea! woo-hoo! :) whippersnapper says i'm right. :)

its just a matter of misinterpretatin of the language used. "Who are we to expect to get far, with our sinful ways and disobedience" is a different concept then "but he is also utterly outside of us - beyond our reach and comprehension." So we are talking about two different things, and both are right.

that is NOT to say, however, that this is not attainable by all of us or that God is not within our reach. like i said, He is the outer AND the inner.

Whippersnapper - i agree. it is not only the mystics who can "hear" Him and communicate with Him - but rather they (mystics) are an enlightened few who have attained that closeness to Him and openness of brain, heart, etc to hear Him more clearly. My sn here is mysticlvr - for "mystic lover" because they represent what i admire most - and what i hope to, inshaAllah become closer to. they are the opposite of me - they are not mental control freaks bent on the paramount of reason... they are able to truely submit in many areas and regions and they live in a World comprised of shades of grey - but without being relativists while i live in the Platonic world of Universals and black and white.

Salaam. I do not have premier membership, so I don't know when there are comments for me. So forgive me for missing yours. Also, BD, I cannot see what you've said.. I do agree with you to a certain extent WS, but in the end I find self-defeatest the comments of today's muslims who limit their own accessibility to Allah based on the thought "Who are we to expect to get far, with our sinful ways and disobedience." I disagree vehemently with that mentality. Almost feels conspiratic to me, that as Allah's khulafah in this land, with the best of us those who are on the bleeding edge of knowledge (and _not_ necessarily on the leading edge of knowledge of the Deen, mind you,) that we should forget the important saying of our beloved Rasool (S) that a drop of ink of a scholar's pen is worth more than the blood of a martyr. We are scholars, even with our sinful ways akhi, despite the debaucherous comments I might make here or there.. do you not see that I am trying to engage others who would otherwise not even consider a religious debate? Our dawah continues at all times, and our intention defines the quality of our effort. Argue against it all you choose, yet I still believe that it is not impossible for people like you and me to not only make a massive difference in our world, but also to aim for the highest accomplishments and - because of Allah's promise - to expect that those accomplishments have no choice but to answer to our efforts. That's where I'm coming from. Now you'll have to forgive me if I don't return to this JE in a while. You can always mail me to let me know if I'm missing important comments.. Was Salaam.

good post cheeta.

Comment on Buzzaz comment:

if you ask a girl a question and she answers, does that mean you have got her?

God answering is and being accessible to us in that sense is different from what mystic is implying: In her sense, he is faaar.... faaar beyond the reach of his own creation, except his own essence, which is love.

I disagree Mystic. How can people like Bulleh, Data Ganj Bakhsh, Rumi, our beloved Rasool and some of his select companions (like the first Sufi's for instance) have attained the direct link to Allah if we are not capable? Why is Allah beyond our reach? Rumi himself quotes Allah from Al Quran "Ask and I will answer". Well, what's to stop us from asking? I ask! Answer ya Allah! And I receive..

What is to stop you or anyone else from doing the same?
"Nothing but the limits you impose on your own possibilities."

it is like those two names of God - the inner and the outer. He is deep within us after all is stripped away - as close to us as our jugular vein.... but he is also utterly outside of us - beyond our reach and comprehension.

I have got lost in the city of love,

I am being cleansed, withdrawing myself

from my head, hands and feet.

I have got rid of my ego,

and have attained my goal.

Thus it has all ended well.

O Bullah, the Lord pervades both the worlds;

None now appears a stranger to me.