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Well thanks for the response all! All this information is a good combatant to ignorance. Inshallah when I am done studying for my LSAT exam I will start reading up on our Pushtun history, that way I can be better prepared to deal with such characters. I suppose these attitudes are a bi-product of ethnic plurality wherein different ethnic groups try to question the validity of each other's indigenous claims to an area (as they all vie for social and political influence). Sri Lanka is another good example of this, with the Sinhalese and Tamils all questioning each others historical claim to the area; though that issue has died down a bit now.
But actually ethnic identity is a very interesting subject and one must factor it in when thinking about countries that are fairly diverse in this way; it has a strong influence on politics, social equity, the perception of history, and the control of resources. These are still factors that are currently shaping Afghan society today.
Baraan-The issue of rivalry between pushtuns and persians is said to be rooted in pushtun empire of Mirwes Khan Neka and his son Asfraf Khan (pioneer of Ashrafi currency). Some historions beleive that after Ashraf Khan had 40 top sardars of persia killed in Zahedan, persians have always considered pushtuns as enemies.
i cant believe the crack head said that to u baraan...Pashtuns are Afghans...or better yet, Afghans are Pashtuns....Persian language, back in the day, was like english...it was just a language ppl learned to be highclass or watever...slowly it took over...tajiks, hazara's, uzbeks, etc all migrated to afghanistan...the pashtuns are originally afghans...the ones's whose tribal areas are in pak borders, (durand line), is just the doings of the british empire...
i was on the exec of the Afghan Student Association in my university...it was a waste of time, to be honest...i was the only pashtun, let alone pakistani pashtun there...i mean, i was respected and all...but i think thats only b/c of my pride of being pashtun, that put them in their place...but it was quite a struggle...(id like to point out, i do have tajik friends aswell...not all the dari speaking ppl are liek that)
(Khan Blues) My father's side is very fair and my mother herself is very Mediterranean looking. The worst is though my brother and I are both fair, we often get 'jewish' or 'eastern european', lol.
Also this goes out to anyone else: I just recently encountered an Afghani who claims that he doesn't consider Pushtun's to be 'Afghans'. I had to block him because I became so irritated with him in general, but on what do you suppose he bases this opinion?
I find the issue of ethnicity and national identity to be a very complex one. I feel that too much meaningless emphasis is put on 'national identity'. While for some groups 'national identity' is a defining factor of their identity (such as muhajir's from India) I feel that for certain ethnic groups especially pushtuns, it is less of a factor in terms of cultural identity.
One example of my frustration was when I recently tried to join the organization RAWA. They denied me membership, because I'm not an Afghan woman (even though I thought by virtue of being a Pushtun, I would get some consideration.) I understand that each group is entitled to having entrance requirements, however, I feel that as ethnic kin our involvement should be welcome by our Pushtun brethren in Afghanistan (and I am not speaking of the involvement of the Pakistani government here, but of Pushtun Pakistani's as individuals).
Also, I have gotten the impression by Dari speaking Afghans that they look down on Pushto speakers. Is this true, generally speaking? And is this because they were (or are) generally more well to do in Afghanistan, and if so, why?
Veenie-Definition of pushtun differs from person to person. Most people think if you don't speak pushtu you are not pushtun. I disagree with that. Lot of prominent tribes and sub-tribes don't speak pushto. Like the Nasars and Raisanis of bolichitan, Niazis and Khattaks of Mianwalli and of course some tribes of Hazara. Jadoons and Tareens are a rpime example.
I guess a tribe has to have a pushtun/afghan roots to be considered pusthun. From reading your journal, it appears that your family is probabaly from Mansehra as they are more aryan looking.
Veenie its obvious because the Hazaras look distinctly Chinese. They claim a Mongoloid origin, but historically speaking their descent from Chinese mercenaries in the Mongol army is more likely.
Ya Aragorn - Oooooooh...ok, that makes a lot of sense and clears up a lot of confusion. And why is it "obvious" that you are not an ethnic Hazaran? (while it may be to others...it's not obvious to me! lol!)
Khan001 - Salaam! And thanks for the info! OMG! you're so right about the burying the dead in thier own backyard!!! My family totally has a litttle makeshift cemetery in the back that has our deceased relatives buried in it...kinda creepy, if you ask me...hehe! But, I've never seen "Quam Turk" written on the tombstones. But I will investigate further next time I go.
When you say that a tribe is non-pushtun...what do you mean by that? OR more specifically, when you say that a tribe IS pashtun, what do you mean by that? What makes a tribe pashtun or not? What origins does one have to trace thier roots back to, to eb considered pashtun?
Thanks so much for all the information y'all! I REALLY appreciate it!
Veenie-Hazara is one of the two northern divisions of Pukhun Khua. Only about 30% of polulation is pushtu speaking. Most people are hindko speaking. It has 5 districts, Haripur, Abottabad, Mansehra, Battagram and Kohistan. I have spent sometime there in my first job as a road engineer, and I found that most people claim a Turkic origon. In most places they have a tradition of burying thier dead in the backyard of thier home and every virtually every gravestone reads "Quam Turk". However, some of the hindko speaking consider themsleves pusthuns. Like the Jadoons of Haripur including family of Ayub Khan.
Abottabad is virtually all non-pushtun. Mansehra is mostly non-pushtun. They speak several languges from hindko to pahari etc. However, some tribes like the Swatis, Mashwanis trace their roots to pushtun origon. Battagram is all pushtun mostly Yusafzai.
Kohistan is more closed ethnically to Chitral and Gligit. Hidko is not spoken here and pushtuns are a small portion of the population.
Veenie, sis, Hazara is a district in NWFP, Pakistan which has nothing to do with the ethnic group in Afghanistan who are called Hazara (pronounced "Azaara" by the Afghans). I'm obviously not an ethnic Hazara :)
Aragorn,
Ya Ustad! (lol!) what can you tell me about the history of Hazara? Did I read in another post that your grandfather is from Hazara too? (My pashto is quite bad, so while i am trying hard to understand what is going on in the thread were y'all just write in pashto, often times i just get lost, so I could be totally wrong on that, haha!) So Hazarans are from Mongolian decent? Interesting! Keep the info coming! Jazakallah Khairun!
Babyj, are you from Ghazni by any chance? The Ghaznawis have mixed with the Hazaras quite frequently. Ghazni has the largest Hazara population of any Pashtun province and they do intermarry. The Alikhel Hazaras are Sunni so they marry with Pashtuns freely. This is why in Ghazni you see many Pashtuns with slanted eyes who look very Mongoloid.
Dude, my lineage is pure pashtuns...my parents parents...their parents parenet etc...with pure pashtun blood....granted im light skinned...but my baby sister...she has this beautiful tanned colour with green eyes and sandy brown hair...
Aragorn: Those places that you mention are still close to pakistan, so of course there is going to be mixing. I'm talking about places like Ghazni which has a "pure" trueblood population.
Comments on this journal
Along with pakhtoon history you should read 'Beloved' by toni morrison and 'the colour purple'
But actually ethnic identity is a very interesting subject and one must factor it in when thinking about countries that are fairly diverse in this way; it has a strong influence on politics, social equity, the perception of history, and the control of resources. These are still factors that are currently shaping Afghan society today.
Also this goes out to anyone else: I just recently encountered an Afghani who claims that he doesn't consider Pushtun's to be 'Afghans'. I had to block him because I became so irritated with him in general, but on what do you suppose he bases this opinion?
I find the issue of ethnicity and national identity to be a very complex one. I feel that too much meaningless emphasis is put on 'national identity'. While for some groups 'national identity' is a defining factor of their identity (such as muhajir's from India) I feel that for certain ethnic groups especially pushtuns, it is less of a factor in terms of cultural identity.
One example of my frustration was when I recently tried to join the organization RAWA. They denied me membership, because I'm not an Afghan woman (even though I thought by virtue of being a Pushtun, I would get some consideration.) I understand that each group is entitled to having entrance requirements, however, I feel that as ethnic kin our involvement should be welcome by our Pushtun brethren in Afghanistan (and I am not speaking of the involvement of the Pakistani government here, but of Pushtun Pakistani's as individuals).
Also, I have gotten the impression by Dari speaking Afghans that they look down on Pushto speakers. Is this true, generally speaking? And is this because they were (or are) generally more well to do in Afghanistan, and if so, why?
I guess a tribe has to have a pushtun/afghan roots to be considered pusthun. From reading your journal, it appears that your family is probabaly from Mansehra as they are more aryan looking.
Khan001 - Salaam! And thanks for the info! OMG! you're so right about the burying the dead in thier own backyard!!! My family totally has a litttle makeshift cemetery in the back that has our deceased relatives buried in it...kinda creepy, if you ask me...hehe! But, I've never seen "Quam Turk" written on the tombstones. But I will investigate further next time I go.
When you say that a tribe is non-pushtun...what do you mean by that? OR more specifically, when you say that a tribe IS pashtun, what do you mean by that? What makes a tribe pashtun or not? What origins does one have to trace thier roots back to, to eb considered pashtun?
Thanks so much for all the information y'all! I REALLY appreciate it!
Abottabad is virtually all non-pushtun. Mansehra is mostly non-pushtun. They speak several languges from hindko to pahari etc. However, some tribes like the Swatis, Mashwanis trace their roots to pushtun origon. Battagram is all pushtun mostly Yusafzai.
Kohistan is more closed ethnically to Chitral and Gligit. Hidko is not spoken here and pushtuns are a small portion of the population.
Ya Ustad! (lol!) what can you tell me about the history of Hazara? Did I read in another post that your grandfather is from Hazara too? (My pashto is quite bad, so while i am trying hard to understand what is going on in the thread were y'all just write in pashto, often times i just get lost, so I could be totally wrong on that, haha!) So Hazarans are from Mongolian decent? Interesting! Keep the info coming! Jazakallah Khairun!