Aragorn: Sorry for the delayed response as I am on vacation hence check e-mail rarely (until Sunday, Nov. 27) but you have managed to clear up some misconceptions I had re: the Khan origin. Thank you!

Sophisty, re: the name "Khan" being ubiquitous amongst South Asian Muslims. The difference between them all is that some are of Pashtun descent and some may just have the name. "Khan" is what the leader of a tribe is typically called amongst Pashtuns and other nationalities emulated that and gave the title to their tribal leaders and or dignitaries. Actually, "Khan" is not that typical a Pashtun name at all and this is just one of many desi stereotypes regarding Pashtuns. When you take into account the entirety of Pashtuns from Herat to Chitral, the name "Khan" isn't that common. I'd also venture to say that the name "Khan" is much more common amongst NON-Pashtuns than with Pashtuns.

Regarding Shah Rukh Khan, he is a diluted Pashtun from what I hear. He is a relative of Yusuf Khan a.k.a. "Dilip Kumar" who is Yusufzai from NWFP and fluent in Pashto. Your parents are right, he doesn't really look Pashtun because his features are not that angular. I will add that the stereotype of Pashtuns being white and light haired and light eyed is just a fantasy of dark desis. Its not reality. There are many Pashtuns who look like that, but there are also very dark Pashtuns as well. In both Pakistan and Afghanistan I've seen 100% full blooded Pashtuns who looked like Bengalis.

Ethnic stereotypes are almost always wrong.

Aragorn: I'm not sure either whether the Pukhtun are descended from the Jews. I have heard it as well that the Pukhtun were one of the lost Israeli tribes. How valid is this theory? Has there been any physical proof to validate it?

Now what about this...what differentiates Pukhtun Khans from Punjabi Khans from Sindhi Khans from Balochi Khans? I have come across at least one person with the surname of Khan belonging to each of these Pakistani ethnicities. Also, I'll have you know that there are Khans among the Muhajir/Urdu-speaking populations of Pakistan as well. Hence, what are the inherent differences in origin, if any, between such groups?

Lastly...ok this is funny...my mom and dad joke that the Bollywood actor Shah Rukh Khan looks like no Khan :P (H) I mean, Khans are generally good-looking (and some die-hard Shah Rukh fans may adamantly disagree) but he does NOT look like your typical Khan...mom and dad are right );

Afgirl: Aragorn wrote..."Sophisty, well, actually, its been a long held belief that "Khan" was a hand-me-down from the conquering Mongols. However, that is a bit anachronistic and linguistically inaccurate. The term "Khan" which is used in Western historical texts to represent the baronial Mongol title is in actuality a distortion of the Mongol word "Kaghan". So "Genghis Khan" was actually "Chingiz Kaghan". Thus, on linguistics alone it is obvious that the name "Khan" more than likely did not originate with Kaghan because A) It has not been substantiated that "Kaghan" is, indeed, the etymon for "Khan" and B) There are historical records of the name "Khan" existing before the Mongol invasions of Central Asia. This has led people to speculate whether or not the name "Khan" is in actually a derivative of "Kahin" which is a dignitary's title in Aramaic.

So if this name originates in Aramaic it could be from the Achaemenians since their official language was a form of Aramaic, or it could point to an even more controversial theory and that is the Israelite origin of the Pashtun tribes.

This leads back to the age old debate of whether or not the Pashtuns are a lost Israelite tribe bound by Nazorite vow which would explain their genetic predisposition to physical strength as well as prowess in battle. The Nazorite vow was the tradition of the Israelite juggernaut Samson.

Many Pashtun historians are extremely averse to the notion that they may have descended from Jews and they reference Mughal texts citing Israelite ancestry of the Pashtuns as a means of derision. Thus, they say that the theory originated in Mughal "psyops" during the rebellion of the Pashtun "Warrior-Poet" Khushhal Khan Khattak. His poetry of courage and valor is Gospel amongst the Pashtuns.

In the end this is an area of uncertainty and is open to much historical debate."


Aragorn: Afgirl wrote..."I want to improve my Pashto. Anyone want to toture me?

I agree Sophisty. Hazrat Ali said, "People often hate what they do not understand".

I can't read any of Aragorn's comments because I am not a paid member... LOL!"


Aragorn then wrote: "Could someone who is connected to me please past Afggirl's comments? I can't see them because we're not connected. Thanks."

You two should become paid members and avoid this "hide-n-seek game...hehehe ;) :P (A)

Could someone who is connected to me please past Afggirl's comments? I can't see them because we're not connected. Thanks.

I want to improve my Pashto. Anyone want to toture me? :)

I agree Sophisty. Hazrat Ali said, "People often hate what they do not understand".

I can't read any of Aragorn's comments because I am not a paid member... LOL!

Sophisty, well, actually, its been a long held belief that "Khan" was a hand-me-down from the conquering Mongols. However, that is a bit anachronistic and linguistically inaccurate. The term "Khan" which is used in Western historical texts to represent the baronial Mongol title is in actuality a distortion of the Mongol word "Kaghan". So "Genghis Khan" was actually "Chingiz Kaghan". Thus, on linguistics alone it is obvious that the name "Khan" more than likely did not originate with Kaghan because A) It has not been substantiated that "Kaghan" is, indeed, the etymon for "Khan" and B) There are historical records of the name "Khan" existing before the Mongol invasions of Central Asia. This has led people to speculate whether or not the name "Khan" is in actually a derivative of "Kahin" which is a dignitary's title in Aramaic.

So if this name originates in Aramaic it could be from the Achaemenians since their official language was a form of Aramaic, or it could point to an even more controversial theory and that is the Israelite origin of the Pashtun tribes.

This leads back to the age old debate of whether or not the Pashtuns are a lost Israelite tribe bound by Nazorite vow which would explain their genetic predisposition to physical strength as well as prowess in battle. The Nazorite vow was the tradition of the Israelite juggernaut Samson.

Many Pashtun historians are extremely averse to the notion that they may have descended from Jews and they reference Mughal texts citing Israelite ancestry of the Pashtuns as a means of derision. Thus, they say that the theory originated in Mughal "psyops" during the rebellion of the Pashtun "Warrior-Poet" Khushhal Khan Khattak. His poetry of courage and valor is Gospel amongst the Pashtuns.

In the end this is an area of uncertainty and is open to much historical debate.

Well for what it's worth, my take on this issue is that people hating on each other is immature and fraught with insecurity. You are right...it is easier to hate, feel jealousy, and/or be vindictive than be genuinely nice. Anyhow, be confident, be yourself, and project your thoughts on this village as much as you wish, as long as you aren't hurting anyone...that's my two cents worth.

Any thoughts on the Khan vs. Kahn topic?

Sophisty, lol, no, I'm not interested in finding someone. I was referring to a very ridiculous spat that occurred a few months ago. I used to write stuff here a lot more, but then completely stopped after someone freaked out and started accusing me of trying to "impress girls". I guess its a lot easier to hate on me then to just get a gym membership lol.

If you weren't here for it, then don't worry about it. Its not even worth mentioning nor is the protagonist who started it all.

Interesting information! Thank you for sharing, Aragorn. In line with this theory of Cyrus the Great of Persia possibly being Thu-l Qarnayn and who was pronounced a Koresh, freeing Jews from bondage from modern-day Iraq (then Babylon), I had heard something about the surnames KHAN (Muslim) and KAHN (Jewish) having similar origins rooted in Persian history. Would you happen to know anything about that by chance?

As for "picking up girls", don't know your history on this village but if you are genuinely interested in getting married (and NOT "picking up girls"), you may join my village WillUMarryMe...just a thought.

Sophisty, some scholars of tafs?r say the Achaemenians were the Empire of Thu-l Qarnayn (`alayhis-sal?m) the mighty Prophet-King who is mentioned in S?rat al-Kahf. There's one Had?th in Im?m Ahmad's Sunan wherein the Prophet (sallall?h? `alayh? wa sallam) said that the city of Merv was established by Thu-l Qarnayn (lit. "ban?h? Thu-l Qarnayn") and we known historically that the city of Merv was founded by Cyrus. The Had?th has some weakness in its isn?d but considering that this is a historical reference that does not impact `aq?dah (theological creed), then is not discarded and can be a valid historical reference. This has led some to theorize that Thu-l Qarnayn is actually Cyrus the Persian and this would explain why the JEWS were the ones who asked the Prophet (sallall?h? `alayh? wa sallam) who Thu-l Qarnayn was which led to the revelation in S?rat al-Kahf "wa yas'al?naka `an thi-l qarnayn" ("And they ask you about Thu-l Qarnayn"). The "they" in this verse is a reference to the inquiring Jews. It was Cyrus (called "Koresh" in the Old Testament) who freed the Jews from Babylon and allowed them to return to their homeland which earned him the status of being the only non-Jew in Israelite history who was given the title of "Moshiach" or "Messiah". This would fit right in tune with the characteristics of a Prophet of All?h who was given the power to free All?h's chosen people from captivity and bondage.

Of course all of this is interpretive theory as there are other viable possibilities regarding the identity of Thu-l Qarnayn which include Moses, Abraham and the ancient Kings who warred in his lifetime at the vale of Siddim as mentioned briefly in the Book of Genesis.

This is a very detailed subject, but I thought you might find it interesting since you appear to relate to the ancient Persians. Hopefully a war won't repeat on here for me being too "long-winded" and accusations of me trying to pick up girls :/

Aragorn: I looked at the website again and you are right, it's weird. Yeah I bet it meant Sanskrit rather than Siniscrit.
www.sabawoon.com is pretty interesting though.

Sis, that sabawoon.com is a Farsiwan website. They can't even spell properly not to mention that the website is full of complete junk (particularly their alleged "AFGHANPEDIA"). They say Pashto comes from "Siniscrit". I think the retards meant "Sanskrit" and, no, it has no relation to Sanskrit. Pashto's closest cousin is Ossetian which is spoken in Southern Russia. Pashto has been noted by historians as the most likely heir to the original Avestan language of the ancient Persians.

Afghans can be real retarded about their racism and ethnocentric propoganda. There are numerous regions in Afghanistan where the Pashtuns don't know a word of Dari. However, there are numerous places in Afghanistan where the Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras speak Pashto.

The irony is that these ethnic groups constantly whine and moan about how they are discriminated against by the Pashtun majority. The reality is that the Pashtuns don't really care about race. But if you go to ANY Afghan forum on the net you will choke from disgust at the racism that comes from the Tajiks and Hazaras particularly. They constantly refer to Afghan Pashtuns as "Pakis" which is ridiculous since the Tajiks are refugeees who fled to Afghanistan when the Uzbeks conquered Transoxania and the Hazaras are remnants of the Mongol hordes.

They are some of the most overbearing minorities I have seen in any country in the world.