no comment.

Why a new topic Westcoastsmile? This is a perfect democracy...you can love anyone whether it's a guy or a girl!!! and Ali, I love you too but I think you're getting sammie jelous like that lol

also did you notice that is site is crazy slow at times, actually most of the time!

you just want to see us fight, dont you! :)

ok azmehio suggest a new debate topic for us:)

Miky and Westcoastsmile: I LOVE YOU too! Sorry, I didn't mean to make you guys jealous.

hey hey now, get away :)

Westcoastsmile I think you should change your mind about having pictures here...not when Ali tells sammie that he loves him...I don't think you wanna see a picture of that lol!

awwwwwwwww that's so sweet sniff sniff

My brothers name is ALI so its all good :) :: PEACE ::.

good job guys good debate:) ( my way of saying there was too much writing so i didn't read most of it, can someone make a transcript in pictures?) heeeeheee no really this was very healthy now hug and shake hands :)

Make love Sammie, not war! I am a lova not a fighta. I LOVE YOU SAM! Snif!

haha, you are a doctor as i can see, you did not understand what i wrote above :) come on. anyway, we will let our audience decide :)

Sammie: So, if I understand you correctly my friend, a good way of convincing you that I am right would be for me to beat you senseless until you capitulate and agree with me on all accounts, right?

thx, basically i am telling you why we go to war and why we choose our friends and why we choose those "friends".

also "respecting and encouraging freedom of thinking and expression to advance." cannot be achieved with the current middle eastern structure :)

I told you, go to saudi arabia and try to preech freedom for women or the right for women to drive, to vote. they will either throw you out of country or put you in jail :) your concept does not work :) with some country sometimes force is the only option.

Sammie: Man, you were all over the place man. You spoke left, you spoke right, you spoke north and south. I didn't understand what you were trying to say here. I respect your opinions though. We may not agree on some things, and that's cool with me. In the end, what I said is: 1. War is useless and unnecessary to gain democracy. 2. It is Arabs fault why we are where we are and we should start by tolerating, respecting and encouraging freedom of thinking and expression to advance.

Na, im not really behind, I am a realist and optimist while you seem to be quite the oppiste. Of course we supplied saddam with weapons to fight the Iranians, we also gave the Iranians weapons indirectly via the Iran contra. This is not a history lesson, this stuff is all known. Also remmeber that we gave Bin Ladan and the would be Taliban guys the weapons to fight the Russians. Look at the History of this country, we always make decitions depending on our interest. We gave Binladan and the would be Taliban guys weapons because we wanted to deter and stop teh Russians. Now did we like Binladan or the Taliban guys? NO!, basically we took the approach of "your enemys enemy is your best friend" We are basically doing the same with pakistan today, come one, who really believes that we have interest or reallys upport the pakistani administration, For God sakes we caught the scientist from Pakistan selling Nuclean secrtes on the black market and we quick hid it from everyone, it was news for 30 mins and it was gone. ------ I highly douby that OIL played a huge role here, we can get the oil anytime we want and if we had a problem getting it because some country purposely did not want to give it than we could easily go to war with them and take over. I think we had enough with saddam, we had enough with his games, his people had enough of him, he was just not a good guy. Maybe Oil played some role in the equation but i do not think it was more than 10%. The strategy was who in the Middle East can we go to war with to put a foot hold and try to spread democracy in the middle east and eliminate the risk of future attacks or future problems and ON THE WAY, lets free the people, lets bring democracy, lets let women vote and drive!!!
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Protests do not work, i would dare you to go to saudi arabia and protect, go to syria and make slurs at their president, go to North korea and preech freedemo, do you remmeber what happened at tienaman square? The republic of china, which people protesting? they were killed on TV man, some things are not as easy as you make them, its a more complex world. Sure there are those great stories like what happened in the Ukrane, what is happening in lebanon now but those people were but really ruled by mad men and they are small countires with minimal resources, the people in charge could not pay off enough people to stop the protestors and keep order so they were over run. Remmeber after the golf war, the USA told the shia in the south to revolt and they will support them, they revolted and over 100,000 people died. I fault the USA for this becaus eif you encourage something, you better back it all the way.
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No offense to palestinians, but they nor the Israels are my favorite people to talk about peace for. The Palestinians run away to neighboring counties rather than face the true reality an try to make peace, the Israels are just as bad, they continue to build settlesments that they know one day will be taken down, what is the point? Stop working in Israel, they would starve, who will give them money? the palestinian authority? come on :) again, lets talk reality here, also Israel is bringing in many outsiders now to do some of the basic work, people from philipins and other countries where people are desparate for work.
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Suicide bombings are very dumb in my opinion. I do not support this, it is crazy. I have seen documentries before about them and the people behind it, some of those guys who go forward, oww yes and even women now are just despareate, his/her mom, dad, brother, sister, husband was killed by Israel and they feel so desperate that they need to fight back, they need to do something to those who hurt their family so they turn to a very desperate means which is Suicide bombings. They have no guns, no means, no nothing so this is where they turn.
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The barak plan was good, i do agree but there were some major problems on the table, this coule be another long post, i will explain later.
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The arab street is "not really the arab street", people cannot speak as they please, when you see people on TV, do you really think they are saying what they want or mean? they are scare to say things, heck i would be to, i dont want to be whipped 200 times for saying i hate the president of syria!!! The arab street will not advance until iraq is stable and the USA knows this. The free and dmocratic iraq will help the region a lot. I hope that day is sooner or later but i am very sure the USA will not leave or aboden iraq until the job is done, there is way to much at stake here.
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There is a joke by a US official which is true, Syria could not even make a light bulb! Remmeber for their to be innovation, there must be incentive, there must be high rewards for people to work hard and find new ways of foing things. The USA is built of prosperity and oppertunity, look at the USA, most people come here to learn and work because the oppertunity in our democratic system are there.
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Sorry for the long post, by the way Azmehio, this stuff is all old man :) I like history do don't mess with me :) JOKING, i hope i did not bore you all with thie political and history junk!!! ALSO i usually type these quickly and i don't pay much attention to spellllling and grammmmer so ignore the mitakes and i am sure you can make out what i am trying to say :) Its the internet for God sakes not a term paper ;)

Sammie: my friend, apparently you're a bit behind in history. Remember that Saddam is using weapons "made in USA" and was provided with the toxic gas from the CIA and the west in the late 70s to face the Iranian revolutionaries that were threatening of taking control of the prosperous Arabian peninsula. Yes, I agree he is a war criminal. However I think he is a puppet that was empowered by the west only to be discarded of by them in order to gain control of the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world. No, war was not done to oust Saddam in my opinion. They could have done it much more easily than that. Gandhi ousted the British, the strongest army at the time, by peaceful & silent protests. You don't need a war to gain peace. If Palestinians could make a living in neighboring Arab countries, they wouldn't have worked cheaply in Israel to build the settlements. Among the most influential protest Palestinians could do to bend Israel's arm is stop working in Israel i.e. a strike. Israel depends deeply on cheep Palestinian labor to run. Suicide bombings hasn't advanced their cause one inch. As a matter of fact they were close to regaining 95% of their territories with Barak, but their "smart" leader Arafat declined the deal. Why? What more was he expecting? I think the Arab street is drugged. They are more preoccupied by "what hand should go over the top during prayer" or "with which foot did the prophet enter the bathroom" then by questions like: "Why are our governments so corrupt?" "Why are our countries among the least productive in the world?" "Why did Zimbabwe get the internet before Syria?? Although I wish you?d be right in the end in that Iraq becomes a prosperous democratic country, I am not as optimistic. I'll wait for the end of the story and pray.

andi bet you if we had more troops we would have knocked down North korea or syria by now, probabley north korea because we would have much mor ehelp there specifically from south korea.

also there are arab countries which are good :

Lebanon, Algeria, Morocco, UAE, Bharian/Qatar are ok also.

thx - sam

Azmehio, Now to your second post. again, you think saddam did not deserver what he got coming to him? do you think that killing millions is not enough? do you think that gasing and killing families is not enough? the guy basically held teh country hostage and was a threat to some of his neighbors. ----- SO according to you, we should have not went in and rescued the muslims in bosnia that were getting slaughtered by milosavich? come on, really, you need to get back to reality, the world is changing now, we are basically going through a transformation and you need to understand what this transformation is and why it is happening. ----- Your comparision to checking whether a gene has the potential to be bad than jail that person is way outtttttttt there, i mean thats like comparing cars to apples, where did that come from? ----- The comparson should be like this : You have a neighborhood, a child goes missing and 3 houses down is a child predator who has served his time an is now out. The police come, they do a look up for predators in the area, BAM something shows up on the computer from a research database that this guy has hurt kid before, the police go to question him, he tells the poice to go to hell. The cops go away, keep close survelliance and talk with teh chief, the chief says well we better go back with extra man power and get this guy down to the station at all costs, he has hurt children before and he may have done it again. So they go downthere and eithr bring him in or kill him, if he has nothing to hide, he would open the door, invite them in and talk, is he does, he will be defaint and resist.