Sam, i agree that anyone with differing opinion can do us a favor by offering their view. However one can do it abrasively, condescendingly or with some grace and tact. I think it the way it was done in the other village was a knee-jerk emotional reaction which was looking-down approach. Having spoken to the person who originated the journal in the other village, it was not the intent to be this way. So I could not disagree with ANYONE offering us an opportunity to learn or see things differently. The key is in the delivery or approach. Like the person that offered you info did it in a decent, respectful manner. No one wants to be preached DOWN or made to feel inferior. You don't get converts to your view that easily.

Jazakallah Kheiran for all that info labs! Irfani: if someone who thinks they are 'superior' in their personal values, is soo rude to someone who they think are 'inferior' than I don't really think such a person can infact be 'superior' because humbleness and part of a good muslims character and one of the worst things to do as a muslim is to never look DOWN upon another Muslim. However, what LABS has said is important. THere is a difference between 'looking down' on a fellow muslim brother or sister, and just simply correcting someone, which I believe is a good thing. I had a muslim brother come upto me and give me a book on why women should wear hijab. Its funny because my friend who I was with, who is infact a hijabi, got angry and said that he had no right to give me such a book and questioned as to why he should care about whether or not I wear hijab. To me though, i took it as being very sweet and kind of him. THis brother cared about me enough, to want me to do something that he thought would be benenficial to me. When someone corrects us islamically, it is our choice whether we choose to take it to heart and act on it, but we shouldn't take it badly that someone even said anything to us in the first place. I believe part of being a muslim is wanting our fellow muslims to be better too......ALlahoallam.

Or the hadith in full - Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 0079: "It is narrated on the authority of Tariq b. Shihab: It was Marwan who initiated (the practice) of delivering khutbah (address) before the prayer on the 'Id day. A man stood up and said: Prayer should precede khutbah. He (Marwan) remarked, This (practice) has been done away with. Upon this Abu Sa'id remarked: This man has performed (his duty) laid on him. I heard the Messenger of Allah as saying: He who amongst you sees something abominable should modify it with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do it, then he should do it with his tongue, and if he has not strength enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhor it) from his heart, and that is the least of faith."

Fon, for one, my view and others' was taken from the need for Muslims to be modest ................. in Islam (last time I checked the top of the page.. it said Naseeb Muslim social networks) - from www.arches.uga.edu : - Sex Outside of Marriage
Naturally, attraction between individuals is necessary to initiate a relationship that leads to marriage. But sexual relations can obviously take place between any couple, consenting or not. Because of the far-reaching ramifications of sexual relations outside of marriage, Muslims are prohibited by God from such behavior. And because the process that leads to physical attraction and ultimately intimacy is part of human nature, Muslims are advised to behave in a way and avoid circumstances that could potentially result in extra- or pre-marital sex. Modesty in dress and behavior between women and men figures prominently as a means of exhibiting self-control. Similarly, unmarried couples are admonished against spending time alone in isolated places where they would be more likely to act on their feelings and thus be less inhibited" [note where it says modesty in dress and behaviour.. i think modesty in what one says is part of this ................................... ................................... .................... secondly..... and this is something only about 1% of us ever mention, there's the imperative for Muslims to nag other Muslims when they see them or hear them doing something that's incorrect... we ARE allowed to form opinions and mention the correct behaviour (definitely not the same as judging); the basis of our race/ religion and it's future depends on it: __________________ *** "
The historic role of the Islamic community is to be the true embodiment of the virtuous, the wholesome, and the noble. A truly Islamic community is the alert guardian of virtue and the bitter enemy of vice. What is required of the community at large is likewise required of every individual member. This is because the whole community is an organic entity and every individual is accountable to Allah.............................. ................................... . The role of the individual Muslim is best described by the statement of the Prophet:
_______
Whoever of you sees something wrong must seek to rectify it by action or deed; if he cannot, let him try to change it by word; if he cannot, let his feelings of disapproval and condemnation intensify and this is the minimal degree of faith. _______________ As we can see, this description is very significant and comprehensive. In this age of revolutionary media, no one in his right mind can underestimate the power of concerted actions, or the power of communicable words, or the power of feelings." ___________________________________ _________________________________ *** "Let there be a community (or ummah) among you, advocating what is good, demanding what is right, and eradicating what is wrong. These are indeed the successful". (Qur'an - 3:104)_____________________________ _____________________________ *** "You are the best community ever raised, you enforce what is right, fight what is wrong, and believe in Allah." (Qur'an - 3:110) ___________________________________ _______________________________ these last three *** are taken from www.islamic-paths.org

woohooo easy now...i aint logged on for just over 24 hrs and i come back to all sorts :op first all NO ONE HAS BEEN DISCUSSING WHAT THEY GET UP TO WITH THEIR HUSBAND/WIFE...some of you have, way blown out the JE in question, and this JE as well...we were simply discussing about sex and the implications of it prior to marriage etc...no one was giving a blow by blow account of how they have sex etc...i put up this JE because there were a few comments in the other JE that i felt were way over judgemental....like i said before if you dont like what you see...don't participate...this ain't an 'islamic' site...and certainly don't try and be judge and jury....those who have been pretty judgemental and posted comments to that effect (and you know who you are, coz i certainly know who you are :o) even though i aint a member in that village)...please give me quotes that gives you the right to comment in the manner that you did :o)

100!!!

Sam: Actually, thinking about The 13th Warrior - he's right and that doesn't go contrary to subject of our JE discussion. If you read it, you'll find no-one made any personal comments about their current lovelife or partner. That was too personal. We were all discussing sex in the manner of that article that Labs linked to. Objective and, actually, quite clinical... But like I say, sex is quite openly and explicitly discussed in Islam unlike Christianity.

What you talk about is your choice, Sam, don't let anyone pressure you otherwise! And it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, does it? Of course, the same goes for everyone else. Personally, there isn't much I'm not comfortable discussing... but then there isn't much that shocks or embarasses me! I find everything all too interesting to make it off limits - I just love knowledge!

Sam- the way you expressed your disagreement is gracious. You state that you would not discuss . . but that's just me. . I remember that scene as well. But that can be said by a non-believer as well. What happened to create the ugliness was when some thought of themselves superior in their personal values and that those discussing the topic of sex, making jokes were as one person in the other village said were 'verbal sluts'. I actually find that an amusing term though the slap in the face leaves a red mark. :>)

and if someone thinks I live in a shell or am a prune because of it.....so be it, I"m comfortable and confident with what I am and am not.....so it doesn't really matter.

I just thought of the movie "The 13th Warrior" wher Antonio Banderas plays the role of a muslim guy. One of the white viking type dudes asks Antonia about him and his women (something sexual) and Antonio says, "That is none of your business" and something along the lines that it is not appropriate to discuss such things. I always remember that part of the film because I think it truly reflected the character of a muslim. ALlahoallam, I have no hadith or Quranic verse to pull out on this matter, but I personally do not feel that the topics mentioned above are supposed to be discussed freely in mixed gatherings (nothing wrong with husband and wife discussing such issues) and I myself wouldn't even discuss such things with other girls...it just doesn't seem right, but that is just me........

i suppose you have a point.. when you talk about sex the language does at some point get technical..

Labs - good link - but it struck me that the language we were using was the same level of the language in that article, I quote: "The Jews had unnecessarily restricted the postures of sexual intercourse without any divine authority. The Ansar (of Madinah) being their friends, followed their practice and used to say, 'If a man has intercourse with his wife through the vagina while he is on her back, the child will have a squint.'"!! What's all the fuss about our JE, then?

Sofra, turkish restaurant in covent garden.. thanks hun!

Sofra... club? restaurant? hope you have fun..

labs and fairy.. thank you for your birthday wishes.. i need layman terms too, just like FON! labs, i was out last night at Sugar Reef and tonight is the real party at Sofra...

same here, i was in and out with in one hour. My reason: i didn't belong there and didn't want any one to think either. (not that i care)

seedhi.. i'm on the swingers village.. i wanted to see what the fuss was about.. i regretted that soon afterwards..

I so agree with you Labs: five star on your comment. very well put.
I think myself that sex/love making shouldn't be discuss all the time and not with everyone.
I somewhere mentioned about the village name "swingers". That was the most undiscrete village i have ever been through. God knows what love making they use to talk about in that village. It was not only unIslamic but to some extent i thought Immoral as well. I personally won't like to turn another village the same way.

AllahRakhi..somebody already did..i think its too-gorgeous or something like that..