Village Journals
Resonate your identity with Naseeb journals. Express your opinions, share your thoughts, post your writings and connect with like minded people through the power of expression.
Resonate your identity with Naseeb journals. Express your opinions, share your thoughts, post your writings and connect with like minded people through the power of expression.
Ghadir Khumm and al-islam.org
I thoroughly maintain that al-islam.org quotes thousands of references to try and support their points, but this referencing is merely to deceive the reader believing these claims of authority. They further quote many secondary works to allegedly bolster the claims of their arguments, while all of these secondary references rely on a few primary works. Even than, when the secondary works quote the primary references, it is without giving any weight to their authenticity.
This is clearly evident in their narration of Khumm. In order to confuse the reader, they have gathered a series of events, and tried to incorporate the specific event of Ghadeer as part of the narration of the final hajj. For example, they have included this event with the verse "This day I have perfected your religion for you..." The reason this is done is to make it seem that Ali's (R) appointment to Khaleepha was so evident that it was tantamount to open defiance that he (R) wasn't appointed khaleepha upon the death of the Prophet (S).
In regards to the event, the following hadeeth from Saheeh Muslim from Zayd al Arqam, gives a brief description summarizing the reason for the stop at Ghadeer Khumm:
He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina.
I have quoted only the partial narration because it suffices to prove the point. If anyone wants to read the full narration Book 31, hadeeth 5920. The narration of Zayd specifies some clear points in regards to a sermon the Prophet gave when the Prophet and His Companions were returning from the hajj. The main point is that they were returning home from the Hajj, and stopped to rest at the pond. It was here that the Prophet (S) being always keen to educate his followers gave a sermon.
There are two historical points that I want to point out from the narration:
1. In this narration there is absolutely NO mention of the final hajj or pilgrimage and that the specific sermon, let alone the statement regarding Ali (R).
2. Khumm is located between Mecca and Medina.
Now one may ask about where do the statements of Ali (R) come from. In reference to the statement of Ali (R), the narration of ibn Hanbal (R) it says:
He said: Yes we were in Al-Juhfa and the Prophet (peace be upon him) came to us holding the hands of Ali (rah) and said: O people don't you know that I am mawla with the believers from their selves.
The first point that needs discussion is the actual authenticity of this narration. This narration was alleged to have been made during the fitnas that were a result of the civil war, and was unknown for some time. It further contradicts the other narrations of the events, and because of this it is ghareeb. Further, parts of it are mursal. But that is actually a more technical discussion. The main point I wanted to stress is the geographical information it establishes.
Khumm is located in Al-Juhfa.
As for the reason of this statement regarding Ali (R), we turn to Bukhari, Book 5, volume 59, hadeeth 639:
Narrated Buraida: The Prophet sent 'Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and
'Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you
see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus."
In fact, there are other hadeeth reported which show differences in the actual reason behind the event. Some say, Ali (R) participated in this battle, and other's relate differing descriptions.
Al-bayhaqi narrates from Abu sa'eed that Ali prevented them from riding the camels of the sadaqa that they acquired. He then made a person to be their leader and went to the prophet(peace be upon him). When Ali came back, he found that their leader gave them permission to ride the camels. When Ali saw that, he became angry and he blamed the leader. (In another narration, it mentions that they were new clothes that Ali prevented them from wearing but they wear them despite his orders). Abu sa'eed said that WHEN WE WENT BACK TO MEDINA, we mentioned to the prophet the harshness that we have seen from Ali. The prophet said: Stop O saad ibn Malik: O By Allah I have known that he is done good for the sake of Allah.
The main point that is demonstarted, irrespective of the isnads, is that the judgement of the Prophet (S) was initiated by certain events that transpired when Ali (R) was sent to Yemen to collect the booty from battle won.
Further, one needs to notice that this event transpired according to the narration, according to Abu Sa'eed, when WE WENT BACK TO MEDINA, i.e. were returning home from the hajj.
In other narrations (al-tirmithi and ahmed), in addition to the above, the prophet said: "O buraida man kuntu mawlah fa Ali mawlah"
Now what is also significant to note is that, from the narration, the statement is addressed ONLY to Buraida (R). Besides the fact that even this hadeeth is subject to dispute, it further betrays the claim that such an event was ever reported during the final hajj to the MASSES OF PEOPLE.
Claims such as "Ghadeer was the final resting place where everyone who was taking different routes to their homes, be it Yemen, Madina or Mecca etc would say their final goodbyes to one another before seperating towards their destinations, hence the name Ghadeer. It was the perfect place for the Prophet to announce the successorship of 'Ali as it was the last place of meeting before departures it would remain fresh in the minds and memories of everyone as it would be the last thing many people heard the Prophet utter" are often made.
In fact such a statement is in reality a myth, and is belied by basic geography. Khumm is 250 km away from Mecca on the route to Medina. Now why would
people from Taif, or Yemen travel 250 km north of
Mecca and then go back south. In fact, I'd challenge anyone on the above statement, especially considering that since time immemorial understand Muslims have understood that the hajj ends at Mecca and those that participated, especially from the South, leave from Mecca. It is beyond any common sense to argue that people travel 250 km North in the heat of the Arabian peninsula to than proceed South to their respective lands.
So the points are clear:
1. al-islam.org has manipulated explicit text of hadeeth and formulated their own versions of the event.
2. Khumm is 250 km north of Mecca and is not the final resting place of the people of hajj.
3. The statement of the Prophet (S) was made regarding Ali's (R) handling of war booty according to the SUNNI sources, of which al-islam.org is so quick to parade around.
4. The hajji's depart home after Hajj from Mecca, not Ghadeer Khum.
5. It is tantamounto to pure absurdity to say the people of Yemen, and people of Taif would travel 250 km north and then depart home.
6. The recitation of "This day I have perfected my deen for you ..." happened during the hajj when all the tribes had gathered under the blessed Prophet (S) AT ARAFAT, many kilometers away from Ghadeer Khumm.. I than ask why does al-islam.org include this in its events of the hajj?
7. The Prophet spoke about Ali in close proximity to Medina, because the objections were made by people of Medina and it was purely a Medinan affair.
This is clearly evident in their narration of Khumm. In order to confuse the reader, they have gathered a series of events, and tried to incorporate the specific event of Ghadeer as part of the narration of the final hajj. For example, they have included this event with the verse "This day I have perfected your religion for you..." The reason this is done is to make it seem that Ali's (R) appointment to Khaleepha was so evident that it was tantamount to open defiance that he (R) wasn't appointed khaleepha upon the death of the Prophet (S).
In regards to the event, the following hadeeth from Saheeh Muslim from Zayd al Arqam, gives a brief description summarizing the reason for the stop at Ghadeer Khumm:
He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina.
I have quoted only the partial narration because it suffices to prove the point. If anyone wants to read the full narration Book 31, hadeeth 5920. The narration of Zayd specifies some clear points in regards to a sermon the Prophet gave when the Prophet and His Companions were returning from the hajj. The main point is that they were returning home from the Hajj, and stopped to rest at the pond. It was here that the Prophet (S) being always keen to educate his followers gave a sermon.
There are two historical points that I want to point out from the narration:
1. In this narration there is absolutely NO mention of the final hajj or pilgrimage and that the specific sermon, let alone the statement regarding Ali (R).
2. Khumm is located between Mecca and Medina.
Now one may ask about where do the statements of Ali (R) come from. In reference to the statement of Ali (R), the narration of ibn Hanbal (R) it says:
He said: Yes we were in Al-Juhfa and the Prophet (peace be upon him) came to us holding the hands of Ali (rah) and said: O people don't you know that I am mawla with the believers from their selves.
The first point that needs discussion is the actual authenticity of this narration. This narration was alleged to have been made during the fitnas that were a result of the civil war, and was unknown for some time. It further contradicts the other narrations of the events, and because of this it is ghareeb. Further, parts of it are mursal. But that is actually a more technical discussion. The main point I wanted to stress is the geographical information it establishes.
Khumm is located in Al-Juhfa.
As for the reason of this statement regarding Ali (R), we turn to Bukhari, Book 5, volume 59, hadeeth 639:
Narrated Buraida: The Prophet sent 'Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and
'Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you
see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumlus."
In fact, there are other hadeeth reported which show differences in the actual reason behind the event. Some say, Ali (R) participated in this battle, and other's relate differing descriptions.
Al-bayhaqi narrates from Abu sa'eed that Ali prevented them from riding the camels of the sadaqa that they acquired. He then made a person to be their leader and went to the prophet(peace be upon him). When Ali came back, he found that their leader gave them permission to ride the camels. When Ali saw that, he became angry and he blamed the leader. (In another narration, it mentions that they were new clothes that Ali prevented them from wearing but they wear them despite his orders). Abu sa'eed said that WHEN WE WENT BACK TO MEDINA, we mentioned to the prophet the harshness that we have seen from Ali. The prophet said: Stop O saad ibn Malik: O By Allah I have known that he is done good for the sake of Allah.
The main point that is demonstarted, irrespective of the isnads, is that the judgement of the Prophet (S) was initiated by certain events that transpired when Ali (R) was sent to Yemen to collect the booty from battle won.
Further, one needs to notice that this event transpired according to the narration, according to Abu Sa'eed, when WE WENT BACK TO MEDINA, i.e. were returning home from the hajj.
In other narrations (al-tirmithi and ahmed), in addition to the above, the prophet said: "O buraida man kuntu mawlah fa Ali mawlah"
Now what is also significant to note is that, from the narration, the statement is addressed ONLY to Buraida (R). Besides the fact that even this hadeeth is subject to dispute, it further betrays the claim that such an event was ever reported during the final hajj to the MASSES OF PEOPLE.
Claims such as "Ghadeer was the final resting place where everyone who was taking different routes to their homes, be it Yemen, Madina or Mecca etc would say their final goodbyes to one another before seperating towards their destinations, hence the name Ghadeer. It was the perfect place for the Prophet to announce the successorship of 'Ali as it was the last place of meeting before departures it would remain fresh in the minds and memories of everyone as it would be the last thing many people heard the Prophet utter" are often made.
In fact such a statement is in reality a myth, and is belied by basic geography. Khumm is 250 km away from Mecca on the route to Medina. Now why would
people from Taif, or Yemen travel 250 km north of
Mecca and then go back south. In fact, I'd challenge anyone on the above statement, especially considering that since time immemorial understand Muslims have understood that the hajj ends at Mecca and those that participated, especially from the South, leave from Mecca. It is beyond any common sense to argue that people travel 250 km North in the heat of the Arabian peninsula to than proceed South to their respective lands.
So the points are clear:
1. al-islam.org has manipulated explicit text of hadeeth and formulated their own versions of the event.
2. Khumm is 250 km north of Mecca and is not the final resting place of the people of hajj.
3. The statement of the Prophet (S) was made regarding Ali's (R) handling of war booty according to the SUNNI sources, of which al-islam.org is so quick to parade around.
4. The hajji's depart home after Hajj from Mecca, not Ghadeer Khum.
5. It is tantamounto to pure absurdity to say the people of Yemen, and people of Taif would travel 250 km north and then depart home.
6. The recitation of "This day I have perfected my deen for you ..." happened during the hajj when all the tribes had gathered under the blessed Prophet (S) AT ARAFAT, many kilometers away from Ghadeer Khumm.. I than ask why does al-islam.org include this in its events of the hajj?
7. The Prophet spoke about Ali in close proximity to Medina, because the objections were made by people of Medina and it was purely a Medinan affair.
Comments on this journal
With all due respect, I have actually read it. I acknowledge that al-Islam argues that the statement was made at Ghadir Khum, but it is the EVENTS surrounding this place that is distorted by al-islam.org.
For example, the claim according to you that:
"On the way back from Hujjatul Wida, the Prophet (SAAWW) stopped at the point known as Khumm, and sent runners to go and bring back those who had already passed and those who had gone different ways. They waited there a long time for all the others to catch up with them. (I have heard three days narrated, though won't quote that time because I haven't read that and wouldn't be able to give a source unless I find one.)"
1. This is not established at all, and NONE of the narrations stipulate this. As I pointed out in my article above, the sunni sources clearly stipulate that the statement regarding Ali was regarding the 'booty' of Yemen.
2. If this were to be believed, it makes the Prophet (S) look like a very poor planner, GOD FORBID. It would make no logical sense for the Prophet (S) to travel more than half-way the distance between Mecca and Medina, while all the Muslims from various parts of the world, had dispersed, and than summon riders to retrieve them. Further, considering that there were MANY DIFFERENT CARAVAN ROUTES, it would be WELL-NIGH IMPOSSIBLE for this to happen. Further, it is NOT JUST YEMEN, BUT BAHRAIN, THE NAJD, and those of JEDDAH. They all follow different routes.
3. The point I have made is to show that the event has been REPORTED IN MANY DIFFERENT MANNERS. This shows that countless hadeeth that have been transmitted regarding the event have truth mixed with falsehood. These hadeeth are full of mudraj, insertion by the narrators of their own pre-conceived biases. The authentic hadeeth all show clearly that this was regarding a SPECIFIC issue in his dealing with BOOTY. One may say, well your being biased. This may be true, BUT THE FACT IS THIS IS FUTHE SUPPORTED BY THE OTHER FACTS RAISED, including the geographical location fo Ghadir Khum. Further, it is quite obvious the 80,000 to 100,000 is another figment of the imagination of the one claiming it. In fact it is quite clear that THIS NUMBER WAS THOSE THAT MOST LIKELY ATTENDED THE FINAL HAJJ. This is another example of al-islam distorting the facts.
4. Actually, this opinion that it was revealed at Arafat is the consensus of sunni scholars. Further, I fail to see the connection between taqiyya and the issue at hand. How does one argue that 80,000 to 100,000 people witness it, and at the same time say it has been covered up by a few Muslims?
5. As far as sunni books, this is another distortion by al-islam. As anyone familiar with sunni books, including Tabari, they have compiled all sorts of historical narrations, fabricated, strong, and so forth. As Tabari acknowledges in his very introduction that his prupose was collecting as many reports as possible, and IT IS UP TO THE READER TO VERIFY THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE REPORTS. Further, what al-islam does is in order to quote an impressive list of sources fails to mention the majority of what they quote are SECONDARY SOURCES quoting from the SAME PRIMARY SOURCE. Thus, it is not true that it is in the sunni books means truth.
6. In regards to point 7, what I mean by purely Medinan affair is that the whole reason the statement, which as I showed is disputed anyways, was made was because it was a response directed to a FEW people who were accompanying Ali at the time. This issue in no way involved anybody other than them.
7. As far as the hadeeth kisa, that is a whole different topic, and I'd prefer taking one topic at a time.
On the way back from Hujjatul Wida, the Prophet (SAAWW) stopped at the point known as Khumm, and sent runners to go and bring back those who had already passed and those who had gone different ways. They waited there a long time for all the others to catch up with them. (I have heard three days narrated, though won't quote that time because I haven't read that and wouldn't be able to give a source unless I find one.) In the presence of almost the entire muslim ummah that attended the hajj that year, the Prophet (S) had Ali KAW declared his rightful heir and successor. It is when he (S) said (not going to anyone, but saying in front of almost the entire ummah) "Man Kuntu Maula, fa hadha Ali-un Mawla". Translation: 'For whom so ever I am Mawla, this here Ali is Maula.' He set numerous precidents, and I have come across a hadith (from the sahih sitta) which puts Omar (R) saying to Ali KAW "Today you have become the master of all mumineen and my master." As soon as I can access my books (which have recently gotten packed as I moved, again), I'd be happy to include references.
Your points 4. and 5. shed light on why the three days reference might be accurate. Or maybe the Yemeni muslims weren't a part of this announcement. The accounts I have seen/heard, speak of either 80,000 muslims present, or 140,000 muslims.
Your point 6 is, respectfully, incorrect. I'll ask you to please refer to your sources. I can prove it to you that this final aayat descended at the time the prophet announced the wilaya of Ali (AS) to all the muslims present, and had them give their bayah to Ali KAW. This is not an invention of al-islam.org; this is the true history of islam which is being hidden from well meaning muslims such as yourself. It is little chips that tear away from the true history that obfuscate the point the shia have maintained throughout history, and have died maintaining. So that when they sometimes deny being shia on the point of a sword, sunnis make it out to be some sort of deception, which is nothing more than taqiyyah. You do taqiyyah, or request Allah for it, when in every salah you say in surah al-Fatihah "Guide us along the path of those who...." "and not of those who ..." That is the same: a desire to avoid the bad and enjoin the good.
I will attempt to have the reference before November 2005, insha-Allah.
Lastly, your point #7 needs some clarification: Are you referring to the matter of succession? What objections were made by the Medinese? Please clarify.
Was Salaam. And thank you for maintaining the debate in a civil manner. Please forgive br RH786. He, like most shia, are fed up with arguing and giving proof up to the hilt, only to be shunned in the end by people who find they have no recourse but to take the discussion south.
I have little time, but I can give you my word, be'izn Allah, that if you continue to seek the truth and voice your objections here, the responses to them can be addressed. I say this because the truth is there, and is discoverable if one tries hard enough.
I pray for your seeing the truth as it is bil-Haqq. And I am willing to do what the rasool did at the event of Mubahilah. Are you aware of this key event? (This was against the christians of Najran.)
How about Hadith-e-Kissa? That too is important, and along with Mubahilah, proves who the Holy Ahl-al-Bait are. There is also the event of the miraclous birth of Imam Ali KAW. Have you read accounts of it? There is the saying of the prophet about who the conqueror of Khyber would be, the day before Ali AS amazingly showed up even though his eyes weren't healthy. There is the story of Khidhr AS with Ali, but I truly might be getting ahead of myself here, as that is not anywhere on Al-Islam.org, or at least I haven't seen it.
I need to check the references for that, as the maulana I heard it from most recently is still here, alhamdulillah!
Salaam akhi, wa barak Allaho fiqh.
Your brother in desiring the truth for all seekers of it.
Abbas.