Commentary on the passage from Imam Haddad's 'Key to the Garden': "The exhortation provided by fear and awe brings forth tears and forces one to tremble and be humble. These are the states of the righteous believers (abrar) when they hear the Speech and dhikr of Allah the Exalted. "Their skins shiver" (39:23), and then soften with their hearts and incline to dhikr of Him, as they are covered in serenity and dignity, so that they are neither frivolous, pretentious, noisy, or ostentatious. Allah the Exalted has not described them as people whose reasons have departed, who faint, dance, or jump about." www.sunnah.org during dhikr

Bismillah al-Rahman al-Raheem...Imam Habib al-Haddad said in Key to the Garden (p. 116): Dhikr returns from the outward feature which is the tongue to the inward which is the heart, in which it becomes solidly rooted, so that it takes firm hold of its members. The sweetness of this is tasted by the one who has taken to dhikr with the whole of himself, so that his skin and heart are softened. As Allah said: "Then their skins and their hearts soften to the remembrance of Allah" (39:23). The "softening of the heart" consists in the sensitivity and timidity that come as a result of nearness and tajalli . Sufficient is it to have Allah as one's intimate companion! As for the "softening of the skin." this is the ecstasy and swaying from side to side which result from intimacy and manifestation, or from fear and awe. No blame attaches to someone who has reached this rank if he sways and chants, for in the painful throes of love and passion he finds something which arouses the highest yearning...."

Ok, i feel like a moron for writing all that below that questions shaykh nuh. I was totally wrong about that, I'm listening to his commentary on book 1 of iHya uloom ud-din on sunnipath.com, and he is strongly encouraging people to be close to the Quran and read tafsir, and recommends different tafasir for different purposes. He puts it at a very high priority. A'udhubillah... I've been slipping up the last couple days, and it showed in my posts, does anybody mind if I delete certain posts below?

Which article are you referring to TN? I was referencing a brother's message. I can Naseeb-mail that to you in its entirety if that's what you mean, otherwise Sidi Talib did mention an article in one of his comments...perhaps that was what you meant?

Also... "That's also one common criticism of sufism, how much spirituality is enough to move on with action?" My life experiences attest that the striving necessary to move closer to Allah ta'ala that is inherent in spirituality and tasawwuf /is/ the most profound action. I say this because it was simply the nur on a brother's face that I randomly met and hardly knew that caused me to fly home from halfway across the world and pick up the Qur'an and embrace Islam. It was the nur the emanated from him, an unperfected human being simply striving to live his daily life and rise spiritually, that caused me to recognize the Truth and stop hurting myself and turn my entire life around, which in turn has turned my family's life around (for the better). Giving ourselves over to Allah swt is the most positive, influential action in existence. It is also the greatest charity. Anyway, all of the sufis I know are very good at donating and helping others and sufis have also played large roles in righteous combative jihad... they just advertise their deeds to the One for whom it matters... not to the world.

And again, I could be way off in left field with what I just wrote. Insha'Allah someone more knowledgeable will follow-up.

Amir, assalamu'alaikum... I should preface by saying I know very little about hadras and legalism regarding them, so I guess this really isn't an 'answer', but more so my own personal response to your question about bowing. When I watch the video, I do not really think of them as "bowing," but rather as 'opening and closing.' They are not 'bowing' to anything visible, so if 'bowing' is the word for what they're doing, then they are bowing to Allah swt during their remembrance, and no one/nothing else. A 'hello' bow is bowing to a clearly located human being, so it is obviously different. We bow in salat to Allah swt, I don't know of any reason why we can't bow to Him during other forms of worship. That said, I return to my initial point... that dhikr naturally brings about movement in the body when a person becomes absorbed in it (meaning when the heart is truly present, as it must be in order to have real meaning). If you've ever become absorbed by dhikr, you would know that it takes unnatural restraint to keep oneself from moving (the body wants a part of it, too!). One of the most natural aspects of the Creation is the polarity of opening and closing, as Rumi discusses in one of my favorite poems about hands opening and closing, and also as shown in the Shahada, confirmed by the positive and negative statements of Ar-Rahman's existence. Perhaps the movement relates more to the occurrence of positive and negative/opening and closing that naturally and unconsciously occurs in all uninhibited movements, physical and spiritual, according to the laws of our Creator. There's also something in our psyche that makes us move our heads toward what interests us, what we want to consume us. This movement is like giving themselves over to Him. They are not 'bowing', or 'bending', or 'dancing', or 'opening and closing' for any other reason.

Your point makes sense. And indeed it is a fiqh issue, the majority of those opposing the hadra (I am talking of traditional scholars) are Maliki. Does this mean that we must adopt all of the positions of the Malikis. Of course not. I personally do not follow the school of Imam Malik (may Allah be pleased with him, his students, and all of the scholars of his school) and do not follow its rulings on everything. For instance, the Malikis believe that it is makruh to say the basmala at the beginning of the prayer. Does that mean that a Shafi'i, who holds that the basmala is a part of the Fatiha and thus is an integral (fard) part of the prayer, should thus drop the basmala as well? Or that a Hanafi should recite behind the imam? Of course not. I am not trying to make this a fiqh discussion, nor belittle the positions of the school (astaghfirullah), just that there is evidence for and against the hadra and both sides have their arguements. Personally, when I see both Sheikh Nuh and Sheikh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi initiating and actively participating in a hadra, my common sense tells me that it is something that is permissible. These two scholars (and the countless others, may Allah be pleased with and preserve them all) are both fuqaha and are not lightweights by any stretch of the imagination.

i cant read a dang thing from Amir or wackosis. I'm sure they are raising interesting points for discussion, and I would like to read them. anyone here care to help me out? BTW, BR can you please forward the entire text of the article you're referring to? Sounds very interesting, and I'd like to read the whole thing if you dont mind.

i meant reprehensible bida... i've read that article by shaykh nuh a couple of times... i asked mufti ibrahim desai of ask-imam.com and he said the concept of bida presented is true (ie, same in hanafi fiqh), and i think on sunni path under hanafi fiqh, shaykh faraz rabbani said the same thing. My teacher, hafiz aslam patel has said that bida takes on the fiqhi rulings, so there's no question in my mind about that concept of bida. But i was referring to reprehensible bida there. So what i am afraid of is that it is reprehensible bida... not sure tho, so i'd stay away from it... dunno if that makes sense.

As-Salaamu 'Aleikum brother Amir,

The question here is not if the hadra is bida or not. By definition it is. However, traditional scholars have always made a distinction between a reprehensible bida and a recommended one. Check this out: masud.co.uk Trust me, it is not as long as the article that I sent you.

... I mean, each group has its unique negatives, but each group also has its unique positives, why not just take the positives. And the way to know the positives from the negatives is through the book of Allah... which itself can be difficult, but still doable inshAllah, just a constant mental mujahada.

No, Sidi, I will have to look into it.

Bimsillah...wa 'alaykum as-Salaam Sidi Amir...your approach is very refreshing because many people who are against the hadra will still consider those who do it as misguided. Outright prohibition (and condemnation) is precluded where there is disagreement amongst the scholars, and with respect to the hadra, there are many disagreements so neither party can condemn the other party for following their respective opinions since "Differences in the Ummah are a Mercy". Alhamdulillah. Many of the strictest scholars throughout our history engaged in the hadra and were known to dance out of love for Allah such as Shaykh al-Islam 'Izz al-Din 'Abd al-Aziz ibn AbdalSalaam al-Sulami. Shaykh Nuh (hafizahullah) himself follows some fiqh opinions that some would consider very strict in this day and age such as the prohibition of photographs and videos. MashAllah!!! This is the beauty of Islam!!! UNITY THROUGH DIVERSITY, NOT UNIFORMITY!!!!!!

Sr. Wackosis, are you sure you have the latest version of RealPlayer?

Bismillah hir-Rahman ir-Raheem...as-Salaamu 'alaykum, That's precisely the point I was just about to make to Amir, Sidi Nader...As I said, the video is just an example of a hadra. The style and form of hadras varies depending on a variety of different factors, and as you imply this does not effect its permisibillity as long as clearly haram factors aren't added such as men and women in the same space holding hands. A brother once tried to explain to me the differences and similarities between two related Shadhili branches in Egypt. I am going to quote what he wrote with respect to each branch's performance of the hadra because I think it has some relevance: "No two are ever the same. This is in contrast to the Hadra of the other line thru Sidi Salama's son, which is always the same and very structured and formal. Both are sublime and beautiful, but Shaykh Ibrahim's thinking is: that every Hadra has a Divine 'moment,' each one being unique and different from the next, and it is the job of the conductor of the Hadra to catch it and understand it and from it determine the mood and pattern of the Hadra. So some Hadras are very serene, and others very intense, all determined by the Ilham which Allah grants to the participants. This is in keeping with his teachings of being transparent (meaning letting the Divine 'moment' show thru) and dropping one's own self-direction and management, without imposing much on the others in terms of formal established patterns. This is in contrast to the Hadra of the son of Sidi Salama, which is more similar to the Hadra of the Darqawiya in Maghrib, which is always the same and never changes (and changes are little tolerated), with the goal being that the participant fashion and shape themselves according to the greater pattern of the Hadra, to lose sight of one's limits. Both have their wisdom, as u can see."

i agree terminader. :) that's funny, amir, that u thought that. i had never heard of it - so no preconceived notions.

BR - just downloaded that Hadra file. different from what I experienced in Amman. The practice is much more sombre and formal with Shaykh Nuh's students. Very very intense and focused. Not quite as celebratory. Not right or wrong, ... just different.

yeah, i believe so....hmm

In the meantime, did you read the article I posted entitled "Visiting an Heir of the Prophet" (saws)? What did you think?