Why? More matches perhaps?

i think matchbox 30 is better.

*A sweaty CF returns after ten minutes if intense marauding, dismounts his e-horse, broadsword-shaped mouse swung over his shoulder* Naah, couldn't find one, but joined a village dedicated to my favorite band, Tool :D Now I'm off to steal System Of A Down's latest album. Adios. *CF jumps back onto his valiant steed, set's off into the sunset, riding elegantly across the wild steppes of the internet super-highway*

Paradise: ahhh, a woman with taste :) Rob Thomas is Matchbox 20's primary songwriter. All his solo efforts are songs rejected by the band. He hasn't completely left MB20... apparently. "Push", "Rest Stop", and "Disease" are my favs. Honourary mentions go to "Bent", "Busted", "Unwell", "If your gone", "Cold", and many others :D It's like choosing my favorite child... I'm sorry, I know we're supposed to be discussing some topic of some sort, but hwat the heck :P I'm gonna join a Matchbox 20 village... if one exists. Like a barbarian, I'm going village hunting! >:D

ConfusedFella, I love Matchbox 20....my favorite songs by them are "Push" and "Real World" from their very first album back in '97, and "Unwell" which was from a more recent album. Apparently, Rob Thomas has decided to go solo. I read a brief review of his album, in which the critic said that Rob Thomas sounds more like a Justin Timberlake type, now that he has decided to go solo. I personally think he is selling-out, just like Gwen Stefani did by leaving No Doubt so she could see if she could become another Britney Spears-esque pop-tart sex-symbol, at the age of 35! It is very disappointing to see these brilliant artists selling out and becoming "manufactured" to appeal to the mass media.

i havent read all 10 pages of comments so this might have already been said but this is the first time ive heard of hijabis having boyfriends lol. i think its kind of contradictory or to say the least, it doesnt make sense. maybe hijabis can justify having boyfriends cause they're covered up but it can still lead to all the problems that occur w/ premarital relations...therefore the fact that you're covered doesnt make it right imo. but just because it isnt right doesnt mean its not understandable or justifiable so dont think im looking down on anyone if they are in a relationship et.. and about music....popular music sucks. it has no substance and its all about stuff that is not right. and if you listen to it, you may be influenced subconciously by it. it all depends on your level of understanding. so listen w/ caution. thanks for reading my essay lol!

"Did I listen to (pop) music because I was miserable, or was I miserable because I listened to (pop) music" - Hornby

I like listening to music :D Currently listening to all of Matchbox 20's back-catalog. Boy-hoy-hoy do Matchbox 20 have a lot to say about relationships! They have a song for virtually every situation that can arise before, with-in, or after a relationship. Crazy I tells ya.

Paradise, I'm not sure I agree that avoiding such music is the best and only solution altogether. We do have control over our thoughts and need to learn to discipline our minds. Not sure where the solution is...or whether emotional attachment before marriage is bad or acceptable.

Manas, what you said about listening to a song that reminds you of someone whom you are romantically / sexually attracted to really does make a lot of sense. It IS better to refrain from listening to such songs UNTIL you actually get engaged/married to the person whom the song reminds you of. I can relate to that myself from personal experience.

guys, i agree that asking questions in a frank manner is important, but as Effie says, we are essentially relying blindly on the persons answers which may not be in agreement w/ their actions. what/ how is an effective way to actually observe a person in their surroundings w/out dating? maybe courting is a more conservative form of interaction, but what if it creates deep emotional attachment? my understanding is that emotional attachment before marriage is discouraged in Islam so as to not cloud a rational decision. same rationale i have heard for listening to music...if a certain song reminds you of a person for whom you have a non-platonic interest, you should refrain from listening to it as it intensifies your feelings. all of these explanations i'm giving may sound kind of backwards, but i'm just trying to bridge conventional norms w/ what's going on today.

soooo... hey! that girl in a hijab is talking to that fella behind the counter... she must be a blow jabi!!!

Platoshadow, usually what passes for arranged marriage in the arab circles is what passes for arranged marriage in Desi circles also. The families of both the boy and the girl are aware that the boy and girl are spending time together to get to know each other for the purposes of marriage. "Love marriage" is when the boy and girl meet each other in another way, (in school, through friends, etc) and then they spend time together and talk for several months, or sometimes even several years, without the parents' knowledge, and then finally, after "dating" for quite some time, the boy proposes and THEN the girl tells her parents and family about the boy.

That said, I know of many desi guys around my age born and raised in north america who went to pak for two weeks and came back engaged. They saw the girl once or twice in the presence of parents and that was it!

Plato: In North America, most desis have altered the method out of necessity (otherwise no kid will even entertain a suggestion from mom) to allow the boy/girl to talk after the first tea/chai meeting. But even so I constantly run into young people here who's parents are trying to force their son/daughter into a marriage after one family visit. Old habits die hard.

ok, we got a disconnect. when arabs say "aranged marriage" that means mom hooks you up, and you get to know girl/boy. then you get hitched. it gets called an arranged marriage. at least thats what passes for arranged marriage in the arab circles i travel in. crazy. so everytime someone desi says arragned marriage it is what Ertw is talking about? i had no idea

Plato: Desis are still stuck in arranged marriage mode. Even now most of my cousins in Pak were married in the following fashion: Boy comes with family to prospective girl's house. She comes serves tea to the family. Boys parents make small talk with Girl's parents. Boy and Girl never talk to each other. Later if the boy liked her, his parents will give her parents a proposal. They will get engaged, and even after an engagement any communication is frowned upon. Only after the nikah can they talk. I kid you not...the last time I was in Pak, and attended one of my cousin's wedding, I was later talking to his bride and she was telling me how after the wedding they were being driven to the groom's home and they were sitting together in the back seat of the car-this was when she first heard his voice! My mother didn't even know what my dad looked liked until her wedding day. My dad had seen a picture of my mom AFTER he agreed to marry her. This is the case in moderately religous families... no hijabis etc.

i don't know how you desi's run around doing things, but arabs get to know each other prior to engagement, and after engagemnet they tend to do alot of getting to know each other too. so they'd go out for dinners and whatnot. talk, etc. you don't bring up "how many kids do you want" on first sight. but if you see someone you find interesting, you talk to them, after a while if you remain interested start asking more serious questions. if you think you are compatible, or are willing to work out areas in which you are not of hte smae opinion engagement, getting to know people better etc etc... breaking off engagemnts suck. but not as bad as breaking off a marriage. getting to know someone does take time, and it easier in various settings, and sure people lie. but people lie anyway. alot of it is hope and faith, even in the "dating" world. alot of it is accepting that no one "fits" your ideal, and that you find somoen you like, and are willing to slog through the tought times with, and make a go at building a life together in which neither will feel cheater, neglected or denied the life that they wanted. I know of an uncle who married into a love marriage. he met her in St. Crox, arabia, from Palestine too. they met and got to know each oteher, did the engameent and the geting to know each other better thing. but she isn't happy with the life hse has now. she wanted to work, and have maybe 2 kids. now she does not work and is raising 9 kids (nine!), and she is all stressed about it. apparently she never brought it up before they got hitched. and they had a 2 year engagment, and knew each otehr before then. the problem wasn't that htey didn't have time. it's that no one thought to ask what they where planning. My uncle is happy with his life, but sad that his wife feels so disapointed about it. i feel for both of them, neither meant any ill to the other, but had they just spoken about it it would not have come to this.

I know of many Muslim guys who while they themselves are just moderately religous and back in India/Pak would easily have married a non-hijabi, they start looking only at hijabis when considering girls raised in north america. The reason is they view hijabis as a 'safer' option. Now on a percentage basis yes there are probably more hijabis that are 'good girls' but as our current discussion is showing that doesn't mean its a sure shot. These same guys will go to Pakistan tommorrow and marry a non-hijabi viewing them as a 'safer' option as well.

I dont' think there's anything wrong in a hijabi meeting up with a guy to get to know him as long as she's a good girl about it. Wearing hijab is about dressing modestly in front of men. Some people define what constitutes hijab differently. For me the defination of hijab doesn't include covering the hair. For others it may. No one is perfect. Only issue I have is when people assume those who cover their hair are automatically more 'pious' or 'good girls' than those who don't. Perhaps that's the sentiment that's really underlying this entry... One shouldn't judge a book by it's cover!