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I am the City of Knowledge, and Ali its gate


The following narration has been quoted to show that despite the fact that a narration is quoted in a sunni book, does not in any way necessitate that a sunni holds it as authentic. Hadeeth scholars compile many different hadeeth in their books. This is especially relevant because sites like al-islam.org are consistently known fro propagating the idea that "this is in a sunni book, meaning it is true." This is an injustice to all scholarship, and though ignorance is excusable for one who does not have access to these sources, it is not justified for sites like al-islam. Nowadays, those who read the site are harping the same tune, and this done out of ignorance.

This is the problem when sectarianism abounds. Here is an analysis of the hadeeth to show how there is another world involved in this matter. The first portions deals with a basic understanding of the sources of islam, and the second a criticism of the actual hadeeth by the SUNNI scholars.

1. According to Islam, the SHAREEAH has been completed. with the coming of Muhammad (S). There is no specific spiritual access one must have to approach the religion. EVERYBODY is subject to this shareeah, whether the House of the Prophet or the Companions of the Prophet of God, or anybody else. Ali (R) can have a correct opinion just as much as Umar (R) can have a correct opinion. Umar (R) can modify his opinion based upon understanding, and Ali (R) can modify his opinion based upon understanding.

This hadeeth attempts to pass off a specific knowledge that was allegedly 'exclusive' to Ali, that his 'enemies' did not possess. This contradicts the Quran in entirety.

Further, this hadeeth is not just quoted by shias, but many sufi groups who trace their spritual lineage to Ali (R). They say that the esoteric knowledge has been passed down through us that is the other part of the teachings of Muhammad (S), though the Quran and Sunnah is quite clear that the shareeah is what has been sent, and that further Muhammad (S) was to proclaim this to all people.

We see how in history, when sectarianism abounds, their is a radical shift in the original simplicity of religion, to one that gives rise to many different groups.


2. The following narration is quoted in Tirmidhi. al-islam.org will fail to tell you that:

Tirmidhi does not accept the hadeeth as saheeh. but in fact records it as munka. ibn Jauzi and Sitaj al Quzvi-nee say it is fabricated.

Muhammad bin Umar-ar-Roomi reports this tradition from Shareek. Abu Zuraa says it contains weakness. Abu Dawood says Muhammad bin Umar Ar-Roomi is weak.

The last narrator in the hadeeth is Ismaeel bin Moosa al-Fizari, who is a teacher of Tirmidi. It is acknowledged that he was staunch shia, and that a shia in matter's of this subject are unacceptable. In fact, ibn-abi-Shaiba and Hunad state that he is a fasiq and sinner.

ibn Jauzi, in his criticism of it states, "firstly this tradition has been narrated from Suvaid bin ghafala, who did not state any authority for it. And this rivayat is mudhtarab. And Salma bin Kuhail did not hear any tradition from Sanabji."

In the other methods of narration, there is Abdul Hameed bin Bahar who reports from Shareek. ibn Hibban use to say that he was a thief of hadeeth, attributing hadeeth to trustworthy narrators despite these alleged traditions never being narrated by them.

In the narration through Abu Bakr bin Mardooya through Muhammad bin Qais, the latter is UNKNOWN.

As far as Shareek, the is considered an imam by some. Yet, the negative is present too. Ali bin Al Madeeni reports that Saeed Al Qattan, that he considers Shareek extremely weak. ibn ul Muthanna says he never heard saeed al Qattan and Abdur rehman bin al Mehdi, reporting from Shareek.

Yahya bin Saeed al Qattan says, "I have found a lot of tampering in the principle of Shareek." Abdul Jabbar told Yahya, that people started saying Shareek's memory started suffering in his last age, and started confusing. Yahya responded, "He ALWAYUS suffered from confusion of traditions."

Yahya bin Moeen says, "His geneology is like Shareek bin Abdullah, bin sanan, bin Anas al Nakhee. His grandfather Sanan bin Anas is the killer of Husain bin Ali (R).

Abdullah bin Mubarak said, "Shareek knows the traditions of the Kufis, more than Sufyan."

In fact, there is a lot of opinions on him that shows that he contradicted himself many times. Further, an examination of all the methods of narrations reveals these weaknesses. A basic analysis of the hadeeth shows that despite the proclamation of "it is in the sunni book", this in no way proves anything.
 

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Login to find out (December 25, 2005 at 9:56am)
I just don't get it. Why are we so wrapped up in these details to the point that we are willing to go into mosques and kill each other over differences in opinion.

Live and let live.

As long as we hold true to the five pillars of Islam and and try and live a life in accordance with them, does it matter that much who the next khalifa should have been after the death of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)?

It seems that hadeeth is becoming more important than the Wisdom imparted by the Quran. The whole point (in my opinion) is to grasp the philosophy of Islam and to live our life in accordance with Islamic law fully understanding the philosophy behind the law. Blind faith or going on some one elses word can only take you that far.

There is just too much confusion with all these different and often contradictory hadeeth. I'm quite happy focusing on the similarities between the two sects rather than the differences. As long as a hadeeth is in accordance with the quran, I'll accept it. I really don't see the point in debating these points over and over and over again when so many people who are engaged in the debate come in with views that their version of the hadeeth is the accurate one. I don't know if there will ever be unity amongst the shia and sunni, especially when it comes to the point of Khilafat.

Isnt there a verse in the Quran that says how Allah reprimands us from creating sects and then these sects fighting amongst them selves?
 
Login to find out (December 24, 2005 at 11:25pm)
"so your vack to your point that everything that doesn't agree with your belief is fabricatd or weak?"

No, i'm saying that everything that doesn't agree with the truth is fabricated or weak. This is why I quoted at least 5 of the top-notch sunni scholars supporting the very point I was raising. I mean, we are talking about the CREAM OF THE CROP. Abdullah bin Mubarak, ibn Jauzi, Yahya bin Moeen, and more.

Actually, I think you are confused right now because you have never seen these types of criticism before. It is a whole different world.... knowledge that goes beyond what you've been taught in Sunday School or al-islam.org...
 
Login to find out (December 24, 2005 at 10:42pm)
so your vack to your point that everything that doesn't agree with your belief is fabricatd or weak?

well you go ahead and try and mould he facts to fit your belief, i would rather base my belief on the clear facts. i have no interest in getting involved in you ego fuelled game of disproving everything, it does nothing to strengthen ones faith. i would rather spend my time finding the truth and bettering myself as a muslim, insha Allah.
 
Login to find out (December 24, 2005 at 10:06pm)
actually, I stated my point... the point is to show the very site you reference is pretty much lacking integrity... and it uses these quotes to TRY AND DISPROVE what sunnis hold... so it really isn't about posting something positive to you...

please do not try and make this into some claim about posting positive instead of negative... part of being positive is to assert what is wrong is wrong...

if there are 10 sunni articles that are totally fabricated, than these sunni articles are fabricated... I would not believe in them... further, considering this hadeeth would be found in many SUNNI articles, than obviously I was disproving something that is held by many sunnis...
 
Login to find out (December 24, 2005 at 10:04pm)
good post bro.
 
Login to find out (December 24, 2005 at 10:02pm)
tragedy with islam is tyrant muslim rulers, whether be bani ummaya or abni abbas or todays saddam or saud(may allahs curses on them), these tyrants did unislamic acts in the name of islam and finally islam got the blame, least to mention these anti-ahlulbait rulers bribed or killed writers who didnt manipulate the pro-ahlulbait hadeeths, alhamdolilah we got from ahlulbait(as) and we dont need to go someone else'e door for weak and fabricated hadith
 
Login to find out (December 24, 2005 at 9:18pm)
what is the point of this article? why don't you post someting positive about your own belief instead of trying to disprove everything else. at least the reference is accurate, the strength of the hadith is debateable, yours is just one view. for every article like this i can bring yuo 10 sunni articles that totally fabricate things that they say are in shia books.

you guys are pathetic, because yuo can't justify your flawed beliefs yuo make futile attempts to discredit everything else so that you have something to cling on to.

we have exhausted the proofs, and know where the truth lies, your little tit bits of anti-shia rhetoric guised as 'debate' are not about to shake the foundations of our faith, so what is the point? all you seek to do is spread lies, create division and incite people, this hardly comprises the actions of one following the example of the prophet muhammed (saww).
 
Login to find out (December 24, 2005 at 4:21pm)
Further, the issue is not one of compliment, but clearly restricting the understanding of Islam to one particular person....
 
Login to find out (December 24, 2005 at 4:20pm)
Is it widely accepted by the COMMON man, or is it widely accepted by the KNOWLEDGEABLE?

There is a wide difference between the two.
 
Login to find out (December 24, 2005 at 2:43pm)
You are the first Sunni to argue that this hadeeth is "weak". It is widely accepted as "saheeh". Moreover, I dont see why it troubles you so much, you can continue to follow Yazeed, Muawiyah, Shimr, Abu Bakr, and Uthman, just because Ali happens to be the gate of the City of Knowlede shouldnt stop you, I mean according to you, didnt the prophet say many many great things about the above people. Couldnt he give his nearest, one of YOUR khulafa a compliment?