Wackosisis, are you a murid?

the good ol' meatrix....sad stuff.

Thanks Sidi...

Hey Wackosisis, organic milk and cage-free eggs is a very sensible choice. I believe that the main thing is making sure that the cows and chickens were not given hormones and were treated fairly. The bad part is that many people buy into advertising. We are shown cows grazing through lush, green fields; being carefully milked by a sincere, old farmer. We see chickens chillin' on Old Mc Donald's Farm, pecking and running underneath the deep, blue sky. This could not be further from the truth. The truth is pretty bad: themeatrix.com (Check out the link...it is really great if you have not seen it so far) If I were to buy milk, I would go to the food co-op or local health store and inquire about local and/or cruelty-free products. This, I believe, is the best bet.

Wow....thanks Jen...I appreciate it!

Salam TurtlesRMe :) Yes there are so many different "labels" of eating styles! I have a good friend who eats quite similar to you, she's mostly a veggie, but eats seafood. She's slanted a little towards the soymilk spectrum, from living with me for 2 years in Uni :) Here's a couple of links with some veggie-type definitions just for lingo reference www.passionatevegetarian.com vegetarian.about.com

Salam Wackosisis, re:"What are the negatives associated with organic milk? I also try to buy eggs from cage-free and veggie-fed chickens; is this an ok alternative?" I'd say that that's a great initiative :) I'm kind of in the middle of changing views on some things right now, as I'm a really new revert and am still learning a lot about Islam. I think in terms of "OK," absolutely your choices are awesome because they're halal :) For me, a couple of things about organic milk are that I'm not sure how it's regulated (it's different in Canada from the States too) so I'm not sure what it may mean as far as the animal treatment and allowable chemical contents in the milk. One scary thing is growth hormones, BHT is not allowed in Canada but is in the US, does anyone know if the USDA Organics labelling system means organic milk can only come from cows without BHT? I'd hope so but I'm not sure :) As far as the eggs, I'd say about the same, if you can tell that's where it's from, great :) I find all the labels so tricky that I find it easier to just avoid it all than to figure out which parts I'll allow :) The "hard" part for me I find comes when eating out or at other's homes, in politely (I hope) discerning the ingredients and declining things I don't eat without offense (I feel less confusing saying, "thank-you but I don't eat eggs", rather than, "where are these eggs from, I only eat certain eggs?"), etc., so since I go to the trouble of all that, I would feel silly coming home and making an omelet, but that's just me :) Also, I used to have a thing for cheese, so for diet/health purposes, I want to keep that door shut tight ;) Also, from what I've read on animal-product-free diets, or diets very low in animal products, they're the healthiest, so I prefer scrambled tofu and soy milk, and since I'm used to it (and a tad stubborn, lol) it'll likely stay that way :) Hope that wasn't too vague or confusing...

Hmm seems TurtlesRMe and Wackosisis can't read each other's posts...for reference Wackosisis said:

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"...wait a minute....but im not connected to some of the people whose posts i can see.....what gives???"

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"Jazakumullahu khair folks! Jen and Talib7, What are the negatives associated with organic milk? I also try to buy eggs from cage-free and veggie-fed chickens; is this an ok alternative? Turtles, unfortunately I cannot see posts made by those with whom I am not connected....it is quite irksome! Salaamaat"

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"Assalaamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah I was just wondering about a Muslim vegan's perspective on the consumption of milk and/or honey?"

And TurtlesRMe said:

"I'm assuming this is the only village for vegetarians as well, or does someone know of another village for vegetarians? I'm not vegan, but I have friends that are, and I have deep respect for them. I'm also not vegetarian, but I have experimented with it, and I have been trying to attain that level of discipline for some time now."

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"Wa salaam Jen? I hear ya on that one. I?m lucky that my family isn?t hung up over meat all that much. My mom doesn?t like chicken, and my dad is always talking about how bad red meat is and how he?s a vegetarian wannabe. We eat vegetables most evenings. If I did totally 100% become vegetarian, I know I?d become a vegetarian that would still eat fish. I don?t think I can give fish up? I keep to zabiha, so usually when I?m out at restaurants I?ll order tuna or salmon if I don?t order a veggie dish. But, then again, they say there are different categories of vegetarians, and there isn?t just one definition. Aww, I can't read Wackosisis' comments :("

Wa salaam Jen? I hear ya on that one. I?m lucky that my family isn?t hung up over meat all that much. My mom doesn?t like chicken, and my dad is always talking about how bad red meat is and how he?s a vegetarian wannabe. We eat vegetables most evenings. If I did totally 100% become vegetarian, I know I?d become a vegetarian that would still eat fish. I don?t think I can give fish up? I keep to zabiha, so usually when I?m out at restaurants I?ll order tuna or salmon if I don?t order a veggie dish. But, then again, they say there are different categories of vegetarians, and there isn?t just one definition. Aww, I can't read Wackosisis' comments :(

...wait a minute....but im not connected to some of the people whose posts i can see.....what gives???

Jazakumullahu khair folks! Jen and Talib7, What are the negatives associated with organic milk? I also try to buy eggs from cage-free and veggie-fed chickens; is this an ok alternative? Turtles, unfortunately I cannot see posts made by those with whom I am not connected....it is quite irksome! Salaamaat

Well said Talib7!

Alhamdulillah, as far as milk goes, I prefer to drink soy milk. I do not think that drinking milk is bad or anything because the best of creation (salallahu 'aleihi wa sallam) drank it. However, due to the current practices on dairy farms, I choose to abstain...I prefer not to drink bleach, whiteners, hormones, or that other gross stuff that one finds in a glass of milk. Honey, on the other hand, I eat. This food was praised by the Prophet (salallahu 'aleihi wa sallam) and there is really no other way to gather the product. There are some very militant/extreme stances held by vegans and personally I believe that the prohibition of honey is one of them. Turtles, as far as I know there is no other village for vegetarians; everyone is welcome here.

Salam TurtlesRMe :) Yes as far as I know it's the only veggie village, for vegetarians and vegans and those interested in veggie food for themselves or their friends, etc. :) It's great to hear you've been experimenting! I've been a vegan now for ~6 years and a Muslim for ~2 months. I feel much better about what I eat than I used to, and there are so many foods I have tried that I likely wouldn't have before had I stuck to my family's "meat & potatoes" diet :) Variety is awesome, and surprisingly by limiting the type of things I eat, I opened up my mind and my family's in terms of the number of different flavours and dishes I ate :)

Wa Alaikum Assalam wa Rahmatullah Wackosisis :) I view the consumption of milk and eggs the same way as I view the consumption of meat - halal but plagued with trouble in how the animals are treated and with similar health issues, so I avoid them both. This is justmy view :) As for honey, that's on another level for me. I think it's an easier thing to aviod from a non-muslim animal-rights (different from animal welfare) perspective. The idea being that humans have no right to take the honey from the bees, and that the bees may be hurt in the process of harvesting the honey. I was never totally convinced of this argument before I converted, but avoided all honey "to be safe." Now, I still avoid it, because I'm used to doing so, but I haven't cleared my thoughts on it yet...

I'm assuming this is the only village for vegetarians as well, or does someone know of another village for vegetarians? I'm not vegan, but I have friends that are, and I have deep respect for them. I'm also not vegetarian, but I have experimented with it, and I have been trying to attain that level of discipline for some time now.

Assalaamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah

I was just wondering about a Muslim vegan's perspective on the consumption of milk and/or honey?