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Is Contemplating ones non-existance while depressed similar to suicidal ideation?


What if my mother and father never met?
 

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Login to find out (August 20, 2005 at 4:16am)
damn it, c and ml are blanked out again!
 
Login to find out (August 20, 2005 at 4:08am)
ok, vision has returned, is seems that C is saying that contemplating non-existance is not suicidal ideation, since i practicalyl don't exist anyway.

but i will counter your philosophy with my own argument using einsteins theory of relativity melded with a bit of Descartes.

Ok, so einstein says, basically, that thigns are different based on your perspective. not that they seem differnt, but that they actually are different.

and R. D beleives that thinking is being, and a persons own existance is known only through ones ability to reason.
taking these two thoeries together, leads me to come up with the following.

although i agree entirely with C's view of the world, a fleeting blink in an eternal snowstorm, the since reality is relative, and thinking is waht makes existance extant, then sine after our ability to perceinve and be cognisant leaves us, existance is for all means and purposes, over.
that would imply that our fleeting time on this earth, is actually eternity itself, assuming we are done when tbe ol' ticker stops.

because it is a relative issue, no?
 
Login to find out (August 19, 2005 at 6:02am)
hey plato'sshadow ... im on page 1467 of platos complete works! just goign through the book on Laws (VII) - book V was amazing!
 
Login to find out (August 19, 2005 at 6:01am)
mystical:
teh books biggest lesson that i took away is that if you want to be hapy in life you shouldnt desperately try to be yourself and you sholuldnt desperately seek "not be yourself" either ... entiendo? - modeeration again. hes a very religious writer. awesome.
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 8:16pm)
i can't see anything anything by ML or C

whats the deal with that??? i'm directly connected to ML dammit.
it's been like this for days now.
ggrrrr...
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 5:30pm)
oh my god these comments are so heavy my head is hurting!! To answer the original question of the JE: No. :)
Suicide is no longer having a desire to live in this world and hence fantasizing about taking action. pondering one's non-existence-while depressed is more like wishing you were never born... slightly different :)

Now if the soul exists before the physical form... does that mean God has already made a finite number of souls that He intends to distribute from the time of Adam to the day of judgement?
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 2:45pm)
hmm... i dunno plato - i think it is a naseeb virus... a few have said that.

celestine - what is it about? I'm not good with titles - but i really love a lot of that guy's stuff. :)
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 10:12am)
hey what happened?! all of a sudden i can't see ML or celestine!! what gives?
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 5:54am)
what!!!! i cant win just because im not a member! now i do need some catharsis! ;)
hey have you read the sickness unto death by kierkegaard?
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 4:59am)
and yes, it is all good. :) you were nominated for hot guy of the week award, but you aren't a member there so u can;t win. ;) the girls were also woo-ing over your name, celestine... it is a good name!
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 4:57am)
yeah, read that book in undergrad after a philosophy prof recommended it. :) good stuff. similar stuff on inter-religious dialog out there too.
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 4:55am)
mystic :
nice one, im sure its not ALL goodo but anyway .... .... the books awesome ... you know abouth the myth of sisyphus right? (fgreek i think) about a guy who rolls a massive rock up a hill only to roll it down again and do it the next day. that is his life. allegorically - for the majoprity - that is also ours.
its a massively philosophical book. recommend it big time.
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 4:07am)
celestine - they were talkin about you in catharthis. ;-) all good though.

no, i haven't read that book. seems interesting though.

i'd like to get into quantum metaphysics too - explore their answers as well.
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 3:14am)
"The existence of anything is in relation to the time when it existed and the place in which it existed ? nothing more and essentially nothing less. We?re nothing but a speck on earth and barely a sneeze in the overall cold of time. Only eternity exists. Even mountains (of ice) are depleted by (one, tiny, continually burning flame-drop of) time. ?Give me a place to stand and I?ll move the world? were Archimedes? famous words. To imbibe them only slightly into the following: give yourself a place to stand on the largest platform on the world, overlooking all time and existence and you?ll notice that we as mere mortals barely exist. If anything we?re just a candle whispering deep within the roar of the sun. To use Dostoevsky?s allegory ? if a sparrow flew full speed, through one window of your room and out from the other, you?d barely notice it. That instance, that blink is nothing ? NOTHING compared to the glare of time. Humble yourself. Start your new years, your new days, each and every one of your fleeting moments with this thought and you?ll smile, you?ll whistle and you?ll skip singing sweetly though and over each corridor and obstacle life puts before you. Start from this moment ? "
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 3:11am)
has anyone read teh myth of sisyphus by camus?
 
Login to find out (August 18, 2005 at 12:03am)
ok fine, me you zapato and marcos, we'll do doubles tennis.
 
Login to find out (August 17, 2005 at 2:52pm)
whoa, plato... quite a PHYSICAL description of heaven. i'm just hoping for the ability to think, analyze, remember my earthly ponderings, etc.

but u can have pancho villa, i'm going to hang with Zapato (his partner in the revolution from southern mexico - they met in mexico city). Pancho was a bit too... rough... for my likings. plus, i prefer southern mexico. ;)
 
Login to find out (August 17, 2005 at 1:00pm)
in heaven, babe, i'm gonna chill in milk and honey, ride horses with Pancho Villa, smoke the arguila with arafat, and play chess with Che, Have coffee with al hajj Malik, get into an argument with Thomas Hobbs (the twit), discuss theology with assorted prophets, wisemen, philosophers, scholars and shamen on the past, arm wrestle ghandi, feast with the workers and peasants of the world, live in Al-Quds, over looking the dome of the rock, sleep in till 11, learn to play the banjo, go scuba diving off the coast of autralia, soar through the air like bird set free....


you, can join me, i would love nothing more than to do so with friends (we can tag team Hobbs) leviathen.... idiot....
 
Login to find out (August 17, 2005 at 11:32am)
i agree Plato... these are questions i ask all the time too... is a soul just an energy or our actual "is-ness"... is our existence and being-ness so bound up in both the energy of the spiritual soul and the physical corpse (as well as energy of the mind, etc) that we can not even know or imagine a soul? we use our mind to analyze our essence - so are we nothing more than our minds and c-fiber stimulation?

*sigh* i loved those philosophy classes in undergrad in mind-body dualism!

honestly, i think it comes down to faith for a bit... that Kierkegaard-ian leap... that such a thing as a soul exists outside the body at all... and further, that souls are specific and individual.

as someone raised Roman Catholic, i believe along with the Church, that souls do not pre-exist the body... although Plato's theory and the gnostic idea of pre-existence is interesting - i just dont buy it.

i do hope heaven and souls exist - and that if they do... i still can "think", analyze, etc - even without my physical brain. so... if so, i'll meet u in heaven, razi, (inshaAllah) and we can discuss the answers to all of this. lol. until then, .... i guess we keep pondering?!

anon - get in here and discuss. ;-)
 
Login to find out (August 16, 2005 at 5:19pm)
i've come to the impasse of wondering if souls are lets say "earmarked" for existance and hang around waiting for a suitable vessel in which they can tavel for a period of time, or if they are aquired only after the vessel exists.

there is no question that had i been raised differently i would be a different person, but that doesn't nullify my existance, only changes the experiences, and my perspectives on them.

Assuming a soul exists outside the corporeal vessel (which i do) my question is, does it exist prior to the vessel, or is it developed out of some higher consiousness actions. is it created along with the spefic DNA plan? assigned, tagged and bagged to my body, or could i have just as easily been traveling through the world as your brother (genetic Actual, not islamic) or a new guinean highlander?


basically, if this body wasn't created, would the essense of me, exist anyway, free floating, or in another body.
would i be me, with a different mom and dad?
or would i just not have come into being?

nature vs nurture is one caboose further up on this train of thought .

Would i exist in a similar (but not exact) fashion if i had been raised in a different time and place?

i wonder....