Well it's nice to see that you are able to distinguish the good seeds from the mostly spineless ones among the Palestinians. Not sure if it was you or someone else that stated this earlier in this JE but it's so true...the Afghans kicked some major a$$ and drove Russian vultures off their land even though it involved an enormous human sacrifice (commendable!!!) Bottomline is that at least they did it and did it with respect and bravery mash'allah, God bless them. You can't even begin to compare that scenario to the Palestinian case as Palestinians are far less courageous and fearless in comparison...must be in the genes or something.

On a side note, where as Pathans/Pukhtun are known as straight-forward, true-to-their word people, any and all Palestinians (guys and gals) that I have come across in my life have been of rather loose moral character (ex. wearing revealing western garb such as shorts and tank tops, as well as drinking and messing around with members of the opposite sex in a non-halal manner). I think they feel that they're God's gift to mankind or something...so sadly mistaken. It's just gross.

Sophisty, we Muslims have been saying that for years. "The enemies of Islam are just trying to make them look bad". I've been saying that for half my life...until one day it dawned upon me...why the HELL am I making excuses for this lousy lot of unethical crooks?

You know that day came when I traveled overseas and saw how these people act with other Arabs and Muslims. They are known for being crooks. There will be two Palestinian businessmen who will speak HEBREW to each other in order to swindle their Arab customer. I, personally, was giving da`wah to an Israeli who was very receptive to it. I was explaining the Prophecies that the Prophet (sallall?h? `alayh? wa sallam) had made. Then a Palestinian comes up and says "prophecies, schmophecies! (a Jewish YIDDISH speaking style) Who knows if that stuff will ever come true?"

So, eventually, as I saw these people brainwashing teenagers into blowing themselves up at places that women and children frequent...time and time again...that I told myself in my mind: No more. This prompted me to make an honest and objective historical analysis of their claims and found them to be barely legitimate.

To me things are never black and white. In spite of these views I have regarding the Palestinians' inefficacy as a nation to resist their occupation...I am a great admirer of Shaykh Ahmad Yasin (shah?d, insh?' All?h) for his scholarship, as he was a very learned Hanbali scholar, though I didn't necessarily have an appreciation for all of his political views.

Aragorn: Now I am much clearer than earlier on re: what you were saying. Well if this is the basis for you not supporting them (them being Palestinians)...that they use illegitimate, extreme, and basically "non-halal" means of waging war (ex. sending innocent kids with bombs attached to them into cities, etc.) ...that is definitely a good reason then not to defend these folks.

But Aragorn, I also sometimes wonder if it isn't just the western/US media (ex. CNN, Foxx, etc.) that is making up stories to give Palestinians a worse name than they already have. How do we know that these are legit stories of what the Palestinians are doing?

Busho aw taseh che ba wukreh hagha wakht che kum Mussulman da kafiraanu sra bayinsaafi ba wuki....aw pa Khuday naam ke hagha najayz harkat woye ka?? Taseh ba wayee che mung tol Mussulmanan yoo aw hagha para wajib day che mung ham najayz harkat ba wokoo?

In 100 years these people have pursued every single illegitimate means of struggle in place of a dignified and honorable fight. So excuse me for my lack of sympathy. My D?n and the history of my people prevent me from having standards any lower.

Well-said, Busho.

musilman biya hum musilman dai aragorn wrora...sha nassay wartha garzawa...(translation: a muslim is still a muslim, u cant turn u back on them)

Sophisty if you sensed a "cold tone of voice" it was unintended.

Lets say tomorrow the people of Karachi want independence and their own home land "that they've known for generations". Should we help them? No. Is it our fight? No.

Likewise, there was never any "Palestinian" national identity before the British Mandate of Palestine. Just look in the annals of Crusader history. Was there any hue and cry for a "Palestine" for the "Palestinians"? No. A force of Kurds, Turks, Armenians and other non-Arab races, led by an Armenian Kurd named Sal?h ad-D?n ibn al-Ayy?b, liberated it for all Muslims under the banner of the `Abb?sid Khil?fah.

We are in such a quagmire as an Ummah because of this utterly useless cause of liberating "Palestine". Our concern should be establishing Shar?`ah over the historical lands of the Muslims and liberating the Haram ash-Shar?f in al-Quds. If the land is inhabited by Samoans I could care less. Sal?h ad-D?n didn't care about any so-called "Palestinians". Im?m ibn Qud?mah who was a general of Sal?h ad-D?n's from Jerusalem didn't care about any so-called "Palestinians". No one did and neither do I...and, quite frankly, I hold a great deal of resentment for these so-called "Palestinians" who have sacrificed so much of this Ummah for such a useless cause.

If all these slogan chanters blow themselves up tomorrow, it wouldn't be soon enough. Then, perhaps, true Muslims would replace them who would struggle for liberating the Holy sites with some DIGNITY and respect for human life.

Sorry if I sound confused but aren't Palestinians just as Muslim as you and I, and hence shouldn't we be helping them out? Ugh am I asking the wrong question? Also, if Palestine ceases to exist, where in the world will the Palestinians go if they can't claim the very same land that they have known for generations? I'm trying to understand...there is no need for a cold tone of voice...

Sophisty, the answers were extremely rational and DID answer the question, but it seems they were not the answers your were looking for.

Jews are hated in the Muslim world because the Palestinians, being miserably unable to fight their own battles, have dragged the entire Ummah into their war with Israel. They are a pathetically ridiculous nation and don't DESERVE their own state.

You will not find a single record of anyone citing "Falast?n" (Palestine) as any kind of cause in the 200+ years of the Crusades. Why do you think they won and these idiots are destined to lose?

The day "Palestine" ceases to exist as a stupid slogan and the Muslims fight to free Masjid al-Aqsa and Qubbat as-Sakharah for the sake of All?h only, only then will there be victory for the Muslims in Bil?d ash-Sh?m.

That's all well and good folks but you fail to answer the questions posed above...

Why are Jews so miserably hated in the world by Muslims and practically every other group of peoples out there, and is there rationale to this hatred?

Let's be rational about the subject matter please :)

as a friend of mine once said...''palestinians need to stop their belly aching"....im pro pali ofcourse, but i think, to a certain degree, they have created a sort of 'dissidence' (for lack of a better word) among the muslim world....aragorn put it best, "we fought, we killed, we were killed, and we won", with the will of Allah (swt)...i just wish that palestinians would wisen up and not have such a vainglorious attitude about their 10 year old boys throwing rocks at tanks...how much more palestinian children have to die inorder for everyone to unite, with the strength of their eman, and use their akal for a change?

Pashtuns care very little about the Palestinians' failure to defeat 12,000 measley kykes by sending their 11 year olds to blow up pizza parlors...especially since we spent 1 million of our souls to destroy the greatest superpower on earth. We didn't dress up our 10 month old babies as suicide bombers and parade them through the streets chanting slogans. We fought, we killed, we were killed, and we won.

You may get a better responce in the "Palestinians" village
www4.naseeb.com