well put Amoura... there's a sense of entitlement in Egypt that defeats the purpose of the union to begin with...

u can consider it mango in egyptin dialect.. :D ... see? even on this forum we have some who are with it and some who are against....
it all depends on how u enterpret it!

watermelon? it seems u were thinking of the watermelon (bateekh) while writing ur comment :( since u r in the egyptian village u have to mention 'Mango' as well. :)

i don't call it price, i call it a gift to the pride. u see.. if u go to India, u r the one who have to pay 'Mahr' to the man. i can't wait to get 4 wives from there. el feloos hatenzeel 3alayaa dahaab lol

:)

who said watermelons? I love watermelons :)

well
this depends on the family and the couple. it is also worth mentionung that there deifferences in traditions across the different areas despite the small size of palestine.
in some cities they unfortunatly do. in some others they don't and prefer something really symbolic.. bas having a shabka is a must.. at the end it all depends on how the couple as wellas the family agree on it.
personally, i don't want to do it if i ever get married. it makes me feel i'm like a water melon or sth in the market and i have a price!

Since you mentioned Palestine, I have heard a RUMOR that Palestinian fmailies usually ask for a $50K mahr! :) I did ask a Palestinian friend of mine though and he said it's not true, but they mainly like to have big weddings and expensive jewelry.

just a comment....it's the same here in palestine

salams,
I felt that if i get married to a girl from egypt it would give me a reason to go back and visit, as her parents and siblings would still be there. Where as if i marry a girl from here who has relatives over there as i do it really isnt going to be that important for us to go see cousins or uncles. Unfortunately the area i live in has few arabs, and even fewer egyptians. From my experience though i felt that it will be very difficult because of the culture diffrences to marry a girl from egypt, so i will just leave it up to allah inshallah.

I tried to get engaged this summer in egypt. I am born and raised in the states but my parents are egyptians. It was a terrible experience and in the end did not work out. Her family was after a rediculous amount of money, and it wasnt even mahr, it was for "security". Where in islam does it say that money is the main priority in marriage? if a man is of equal or greater status then there should be no delay. It would of been completly different had her family asked me how many ayas or surahs i knew, or asked that of me, but instead their concern was money and lots of it, and to me thats just silly

Regardless of the actual percentage on the incidence of divorce, it has increased without a doubt according to many sources. It is much more heard of within our own circles of friends and acquaintances. Unfortunately the media is playing a role in weakening the institution of marriage with all of the jokes on "khol3", or creating stories for cheap laughter such as the one where a woman wants to get divorced because her husband snores! It could very well be a satire related to actual cases where divorce is requested over "tafha" grounds.

Also, the new generation is "fafi" and does not appear to have the thick skin of our parents' generation (marriage for good times and bad). All of the materialism and superficiality have made this generation devoid of substance, sadly.

And Hzma, it is a totally related thread...if the beginning is weak, it is no wonder divorce is the outcome unfortunately.

Nas2al Allahu Al 3ofow...

And JAK for your comments..

35% is a large number. Where did you get the statistic from?

Sorry, sure i meant the montly salary. However, 1K is in fact a higher average, and it really depends on the degree. Computer engineers can get startup of around 1000, however others e.g. civil, electric, communications, can get as low as 600LE, not to mention the around 30% of unemployed young people.

Anyway, that's not the big issue, what i meant to say is that given the current range of salaries, no young man can rely on himself alone for affording "current" marriage commitments. This can be changed by both of two ways: changing the current requirements for marriage (expensive dowry, bought apartment, luxury furniture, fancy wedding, ...) and helping improve financial status of young grads.

Mohamed, this can't be the average annual salary in Egypt. I think you meant the average monthly salary. And given that most young people still live with their parents when they start getting a job (some certainly have other responsibilities,) then you can save those 40K in about 5 years. (Although 40K is too low an average for apartments in Egypt.) I still think the average monthly salary in Egypt might be a little higher than this now -- according to what I hear from my friends. And you don't have to pay for an apartment in cash. They usually have payment plans.

But the one thing that we seem to have given in to, is that you have to have your own apartment in order to get married. (hint: rent) I dont think this is a reasonable requirement for recent grads. Couple and their families should always try to be more understanding and find compromises instead of putting hurdles.

I think the most important reason for delayed marriage is financial, at least for the majority of egyptians. Of course there are some who think that they don't need marriage or want to enjoy life before marriage ...etc, but many others want to marry and simply can't afford marriage. Nowadays, no one can marry after graduation using his own salary. He must either wait for some years till he builds up some money, or he must get help from his family. This also applies even if the father of the bride is not strict, as at least there should be an appartment, which at least cost 40,000LE, and no one can get that from his salary of average 1000LE (unless he saves his salary for 40 years).
The solution to this problem can be, as Muslima pointed out, either the government should help those people who want to marry, or people should direct a part of their Zakah to this purpose. Another solution, is that parents should work hard to get appartments for their sons :)

Muslima, I agree with everything you said but thumbs up for number 5 in particular . People look at marriage saying: "what is in it for me?, I can have that later but now I am more interested in other things" well it is not about what is in it for you but it is about your responsibility to create another Muslim family to strengthen the matrix of the society. It is a role you need to play and you need a partner who will help you play that role. Thinking this way, materialistic approach to marriage will be pointless and individuals will happily drop the walls around themselves and run down the isle.

1. Re-understanding Islam's view on marriage and its true meaning. Most examples now reflect the prevalence of materialism and "calculations" of who is gaining what from a marriage, and what the person has to offer material-wise. Most recent example I know was a 3arees that was kind of looked down upon because he is driving the 127 car!!! I mean the audacity to look down upon a Muslim who is seeking marriage because of the type of car he drives, especially when he is ambitious and has a promising future. We need a revolution in our thinking of many things that happen in our lives.

2. Parents need to help make the process easy without burdening the 3arees with too many expectations, such as the dish, and a reception in a 5-star hotel, etc. The verse in the Qur'an says: "An yakoono foqara2 Yaghnehom Allah men fadlehi". Also, the prophet (pbuh) said that it is a duty to come to the aid of three people, and amongst them is a person who wants to become chaste through marriage (Al-Nake7 Alazi yoreed al-3afaf). Maybe we need to remind ourselves of stories of the salaf such as the person whose mahr was how much he had memorized from the Qur'an.

3. If we had an ideal economic system as what Islam offers, then the government should be responsible for providing low cost housing, and having a fund to help out those who want to get married but are burdened financially.

4. Working to eradicate the "fawa7esh" in society...such as what we see nowadays, with loose associations between men and women, the presence of those vulgar video-clips, saluting ra2asat for their achievements, etc. We need to eliminate the venues that increase chances for the haram, so that people can turn to the halal ways of fulfilling their desires in a lawful framework.

5. Working to lessen and eliminate the negative influences of the West...such as the picture of marriage and the family that has made its way to our societies, and in turn, affecting the institution of marriage. Therefore we find some shabab saying things like "I am not ready to get married, I want to enjoy my life", or "marriage limits my freedom", or what we hear today of unlawful relationships such as having girlfriends and boyfriends, etc.....forgetting the hadith of the prophet (pbuh): Al-Neka7 sonaty, fa man ragheba 3an sonnati fa laysa meni" (marriage is the way of the prophet, and whomever strays away from that, has strayed away from the Sunna)..

Ha, fata7t nefsokom 3ala el zawag :D

sorry for the long post...