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Kaffir?


Kaffir means a non-believer. Non believer of what? Of God or Allah? If it means a non-believer of God as an entity, then are only aethiests "kaffirs"? If it means a non-believer of Allah, then does it mean that all non-Muslims are "kaffirs"?

If the latter is true, doesn't Christians and Jews also believe in the same God as we Muslims? Are other religions also not based on humanity?

Will all the non-Muslims rot in hell? Even though other religions too believe in God, holy book, prophets, day of judgement and hell & heaven?

Not that I am totally devoid of Islamic teachings, but these questions do come to mind.
 

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Login to find out (May 25, 2005 at 11:35am)
Good thinking C00lf1re
 
Login to find out (May 24, 2005 at 11:36pm)
I'm failing to understand how you are drawing that conclusion from what I wrote. To put it in other words, before the Rasool (S), Islam did not exist, right? So to go to heaven you have to have followed one of the prophets that guided you. Let's use Christianity as an example. Isa (A) did not claim to be God or the son of God. There were Christians that placed that title on him. Those people that placed that title on Isa (A) and all those that believe it to be true are not following Isa (A) because Isa (A) never made that claim. So that is a form a shirk, which is punishable by Hell. But there were many righteous Christians that followed Isa's (A) message. Those people will go to Heaven. But by the time Islam came around, those righteous Christians no longer existed. All Christians by this time either believe Isa (A) to be God or the son of God. So at this point, Christianity had failed, which is why Islam came about as the final message. So the only correct message left would be Islam. If the righteous Christians still existed, they would have followed the Rasool (S). If you read the story of the sahaba, Salman Al-Faarisiy, you will see evidence of this. The reason the Christians that still exist are not Kafir is because they still beleive in Allah's (swt) existence, although it may be skewed. A pagan, a buddhist, or a hindu would be considered to be kafir because they don't believe in Allah as Christians, Jews, and Muslims do. Buddhists simply don't beleive in Allah; they beleive in attaining a higher spiritual actualization of the self. Pagans and hindus beleive in more than one god and none of them are Allah (swt). The god of fire or Shiva are not Allah (swt). That's why they are kafir.
 
Login to find out (May 24, 2005 at 10:42pm)
I guess my point was explained automatically. Islam is "la ila ha il-Allah, Mohammad ur rashool Allah". Any deviation and you are out. The Allah of Islam is not the God of Christianity as There is God and God-Man so the "la" in "la ila ha il-Allah" is punched right out before even going into the depths. So if Allah has a family (son = Isa) then how come they are "not-kafir". But on the other hand if you say that they are believing in the same Allah of Muslims then you accept of Muhammed or ISA being the son of God. Would that make you "kafir"?
 
Login to find out (May 24, 2005 at 11:15am)
thats the 50th post in this journal
 
Login to find out (May 23, 2005 at 3:17pm)
50!
 
Login to find out (May 23, 2005 at 1:12pm)
The people living with Isa (A) would be aware of these things, thus would correctly believe in Allah (swt). A similar line of logic can be shown for other groups beloging to the People of the Book. So the term kafir refers to anyone not falling in these categories or exceptions. And Allah (swt) knows best.
 
Login to find out (May 23, 2005 at 1:11pm)
But, the Rasool made mention of the People of the Book in a hadith, "Those who believe, and the Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve." However, Christians believe in the trinity, so their belief in Allah is incorrect. But those people that followed Isa correctly had the correct belief. Here is some evidence of this as seen in the Bible (with some comments) : (1) According to Timothy 2:5, "There is One God, and one mediator between God and men, the 'MAN' Christ Jesus." Notice the words "man" and "mediator". Are the Christians trying to say that Allah is the mediator and that the Bible is wrong? Do they not realize that Allah is so supreme in glory that He does not mediate?
(2) According to Matthew 24:36, Jesus, peace be on him, has no knowledge of the time of the Hour. Are the Christians trying to say that Allah lacks knowledge?
(3) According to Matthew 14:23, Jesus, peace be on him, went into the hills to pray. Are the Christians trying to say that Allah needs to pray, and if so, then to whom?
(4) "But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines commandments of men." Matthew 15:9. Isa himself confirmed the prophecy of Isaiah that the people would worship him in vain and believe in doctrines made by men. The truth is that Jesus, peace be on him, spoke the truth, but it is the Christians who, in his name, have invented lies against him. Allah is One. He did not beget nor was He begotten.
 
Login to find out (May 23, 2005 at 1:11pm)
Islamically, the Quran, the existence of the Rasool (S), and the hadith are sufficient evidence for why Islam is right. And in the Quran, "And whoever contends with the Messenger after the guidance has been made clear to him, and he follows a path other than the path of the believers, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen and land him in Jahannam, an evil refuge" (An-Nisa:115) So People of the Book after Islam's foundation are refusing Islam, thus will go to Hell.
 
Login to find out (May 23, 2005 at 1:11pm)
Well I disagree with Abshaw with his definition of kafir. Kafir means infidel or pagan. People of the Book are neither. Kafir is derived from kufr, which means "not believing in Allah (swt)" or "a blasphemor" or "atheist". Blasphemors are Muslims that are declared kafir through a process known as takfir. The reason the People of the Book are not considered kafir is because they have received a divine revelation from Allah (swt). Christians, Samaritans, Jews, and all "Sabians" are in this category. Of course there are some "militant" Islamic groups that don't consider these groups believers. But I don't think their line of thinking is valid as the Quran has refered to these people as believers.
 
Login to find out (May 23, 2005 at 7:21am)
i think we have now drifted from the original topic, i apologize everyone for getting carried away. As for the original "kafir" question is concerned, its very simple, the world is divided into 2 sections per Islam, you are either a muslim or kaffir no ifs, ands or buts.
 
Login to find out (May 22, 2005 at 10:07pm)
Also, reading Quran in any language other than the original Arabic corrupts its message. You lose the poetic feel which spreads the message and meaning into your heart more easily, and there are too many words in Arabic that have multiple or no meaning in English. Plus sometimes subconsciously, the translator invokes their opinion into the translated version. It kinda is similar to why in the description of wudu in a hadith can change from washing your feet to wiping your feet just by changing one vowel marking of one letter. If that much meaning can change while its still in Arabic, imagine the changes incurred from translation. Of course the downside is that most ppl don't understand Arabic, myself included. I plan on learning though, IA.
 
Login to find out (May 22, 2005 at 9:57pm)
And if you think about it, Islam was corrupted immediately after the Rasool's (S) passing. Shaitan took no time in spliting up the Muslims. Look at how Sunnis and Shias formed the day the Rasool (S) was buried. Ali (R) was away tending to the burial while Abu Bakr (R) became caliph. When Ali returned, only then did he learn of the Khalifa. Shias claim to varying degrees that Ali was "shafted" to as far as saying "intentionally not allowed to be caliph and that the Rasool (S) told Ali (R) that he would be the next caliph. Shia further go to say that politics kicked in and only the hadith promoting what Abu Bakr (R) wanted were accepted. Now Sunnis believe that Abu Bakr (R) had no choice in the matter as the Qureish tribe were about to hastily choose a new leader and circumstance resulted in Ali (R) not being there and that it wasn't an elaborate "scandal". But Shaitan messed with our heads and created all the fitnah. Now we have Hanifis, Malikia, Ismaelis, Ahmaddis, Zehdis, 5 percenters (yes, its a real sect), etc, etc. And the scary thing is that only the righteous ppl of one of these sects will be granted Paradise without punishment preceding it first.
 
Login to find out (May 22, 2005 at 9:48pm)
Abshaw, if you are refering to my post in the village journal about what the Rasool (s) said in prayer, I never said the order was rearranged. I said that the Quran was revealed in the order best suited to the people of the time: "Well in regard to Abshaw's comment about the order of the Quran, it was revealed in an order that would entice people to want to hear and learn more of Islam." All I meant by this is that if you look at how the Quran is written, it doesn't blast you with rules right at the beginning. It doesn't say don't drink, don't have premarital sex, etc. right at the beginning because if it did, the people of the time would not have accepted Islam. It starts by talking about the benefits of Islam and the existence of Allah (swt) and once the people became "I love this, what do I have to do?" then the rules came out. I never said that the order was changed by anyone. A proof of this is by looking at the beginning of every surah. Many Quran's have a header that say "Bismillah .." Above that, it states the surah number and title. More importantly, it says "makkiah" or "madani". this is telling you the location of the revelation. If you look closely, all the early surahs are in makkah, which is historically true, then they move on to madinah, pointing out hijra, then the return to makkah. this is how the Rasool situated himself during his life.
 
Login to find out (May 22, 2005 at 8:37pm)
on another note, coolfire, as you mentioned that the actual content of quran is unchanged but the order is rearranged. Black magic is nothing more but quran written in reverse, the rearranging of words do things to people, so do you still think that the rearrangement was just a coincidence and not the foundation for a muslim umma to devistate/rot till the end.
 
Login to find out (May 22, 2005 at 8:32pm)
i second jasmine
 
Login to find out (May 21, 2005 at 9:19pm)
And Horizon, this lecture takes everything from the Quran and Hadith, so it isn't an interpretation by any scholars. THe Quranic ayah and the Hadith that I heard the lecture state are rather blunt and leave little room to misinterpret.
 
Login to find out (May 21, 2005 at 9:18pm)
Well I actually have the lecture on CD. I'm not sure if there is a site where you can listen for free. It's made by Al-Basheer Company and is tranlated from a book on the same topic. Unfortunately, the book is only in Arabic. But I'll tell you what. I will look online and if I come across a site that has the lecture, I will most definately post it :)
 
Login to find out (May 21, 2005 at 4:58pm)
REPEATING THE QUESTION, IN CASE ANYONE WISHES TO COMMENT:
"Thanks everyone. I more or less also knew these things but many times the question surfaces as to whether this is what we have been made to understand? Is all this exaactly written in Quran or is it an intrepretation? Or is it what the mullahs (the so called religious leaders claim)....."
 
Login to find out (May 21, 2005 at 3:28pm)
yes plz, if you could put the link in your post, so everyone can benefit from it.
 
Login to find out (May 21, 2005 at 2:09pm)
Oh and BTW, if any of you have a lot of questions about my postings or question my source, I have a really good lecture for you all to take a look at. It's called "THE HEREAFTER" by Anwar AL-Awlaki. It's the second volume. It's basically a 13 hour lecture about the Day of Judgement and how and who will be punished. It then goes on to talk about Heaven and Hell. He is a really well known scholar and in the lecture he cites everything he says. Every point he makes has a Quranic reference or a hadith relating to it. He tells you what hadith or verse, its source or location in the Quran, and then it is recited to you. I would suggest we all take a look at it, because it's always beneficial to know what will happen to us after we die. Jazaks for reading though. :)