Kashmir, a dead issue???

Login to find out (June 30, 2005 at 3:12pm)

why not Temur? Are Muslims in UP and places like Hyderabad being physically assaulted? were the Muslims that ruled India for well over 400 years a majority or minority in India? do you think it is only the politics of India, and not Pakistan, that contributed to the human suffering in Kashmir...

further, I do not now what we as a Kashmiri whole think regarding where we want to live... I believe Pakistan was founded on the ideology of Islam and if seen in the context of partition, such an argument woud be totay valid... but it doesn't seem to be the case anymore... it seems that Kashmir is viewed purely from a territorial stanpoint, and if thats the case, than I don't believe that's a valid reason from an Islamic standpoint.. its more nationalism than anything else, which makes more blood being shed over it absolutely idiotic and disgusting..

really... the issue of Kashmir origintes with the PARTITION...

Login to find out (June 30, 2005 at 1:07pm)

Khiladi- I agree with you on some of the things, and you are indeed entitle to an opinion. As far as Kashmiries are concerned, the reason they consider to live in Pakistan is because Pakistan is a muslim country. Muslims in India are minority, and will always remain one. The first thing that any human desire is a physical protection and then comes the social or economic protection. I agree the kashmiries have a better chance to have economic protection in India but not the social and phsical protection for their families and love ones under Hindu majority rule.

Login to find out (June 30, 2005 at 9:41am)

so what if every nation is riddled with it to an extent? their are degrees number one, and number two it doesn't justify it... especially when people speak on the pedestal of self-righteuousness... we are a Muslim country, and we deserve Kashmir, but at the same time, we are riddled with corruption... nonsense..
notice how I said going with Pakistan may make it WORSE OFF... I didn't say Kashmir would be a utopia, did I? India is far better off than Pakistan is, in its POLITICAL set-up, as well as ECONOMIC... a lot of the communalism in Kashmir was primarily motivated by the tensions between Pakistan and India... I really don't see it, especially in today's context, as having anything to do with the partition...

further, to argue that India is PRIMARILY out to get Muslims is belied by the fact that in many regions Muslims are benefitting just as well as Hindus... fanatics such as the BJP have lost a lot of ground in those regions... of course their are exceptions...

further, of course I'll talk about economics, because this clearly reflects a MORAL problem... unless of course you wanna argue that economic distribution and monopolization of wealth is not a moral issue... or that certain elite among Pakistan, i.e the military, pretty much dominate every sector of life.. and at the same time, I've spoken politically as well, we have situations where the general assembly can easily be overthrown.. I just don't know how one can try and justify the situation Pakistan is by saying, every nation is riddled with it to... sorry.. I disagree

Login to find out (June 29, 2005 at 9:52pm)

i would disagree. if you look around you every nation is riddled with it to an extent.. and you argue the economy is not your main gripe.. then write a paragraph on it..

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:18pm)

I don;t think anyone could have said it better than Ameen Ahsan Islahi (R) when talking about Pakistan, "?Hypocrisy is a deadly disease, and there have been in every age and society some people who were afflicted with it, but we do not find in history a single nation whose leaders have chosen it as a national policy, taking it to be the key to the resolution of all their problems. In history there seems to be only one such nation, and that is unfortunately our nation .?

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:13pm)

actually Ladydarvesh.. the arm has been in control even during the time of Nawaz Shariff... they consistently monitor the gov't, and its strangehold increases which such groups as the Askari 'corporations'... and its abundantly clear what Zia did, including making it allowed for the general assembly to be suspended, further solidifying hte power of the military... do you think Musharaff is doing any good? do you think the 'growth' of Pakistan is anything more than the US forgoing some of their loans because of the stance they have taken in regards to Afghanistan? why do you think Pakistan's inflaton has grown 11 percent, and the poor keep getting poorer?

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:09pm)

I didn't say the economy was everything... as I stated before, I wanted to know primarily the INDIAN KASHMIRI SIDE of the issue considering it seems to be a dead issue now for both sides... f you had read carefully, these Indian Muslims pretty much argued that atrocities were being perpetuated by BOTH sides, including Muslims.. in fact, its more dominated by politics than the general good-will of the KLashmiri people.. further, my statement was not purely economic but made on MORAL grounds, and the corruption prevalent in Pakistan... the problem is further exemplified with a military run junta... also, your argument Labs is a half-sided issue, because there are regions in India which have significant Muslim populations, including Hyderabad and its respective provinces, which are realizing excellent growth, even with their HIndu leadership...

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 4:18pm)

khiladi, you're missing the whole darn point, you can't give a textbook argument on the workings of government and how good or bad they are - the economy isn't everything; kashmiris are being harassed and killed because they are a minority in india and they're Muslim ... the indian government, no matter how 'great' often don't see beyond that.

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 2:24pm)

I meant the Opposition party in india...not in pakistan...

okay so why dont you tell us what you think is the root cause of the "corrupt government in Pakistan" and do you think that nawaz sheriff was doing a better job at running the country in comparison to Musharaff??
There are many who do not believe that about general zia and the log of what he did and did not do is too long to discuss along with this issue.

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:59am)

the problem is not just the 'corrupt politics of pakistan's gov't'... in fact, this is a manifestation of a bigger problem

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:57am)

the solution to Pakistan, Kashmir, and the Muslim world is FAR BEYOND POLITICS AND simply redrawing the borders of the countries...

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:56am)

the issue is not the type of city Muzaffarabad is... you were arguing that how do we know these people were 'mujahideen'... they could be guards of land-oners for all we know, like other provinces in Punjab... and I said such a statement is absurd considering the very make-up of the territory of Azad Kashmir...

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:53am)

further, it does make them a better gov't, because the mechanism allows for more change... why do you think the BJP lost the majority of their seats? the mechanism within Indian gov't allows for some change, better than with respect to Pakistan... Pakistan has a military dictatorship, that suspends the constitution at will, and solidifies its control in Pakistan...

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:50am)

and I never said that India was a better society.. but I can say that they do have a better government, despite its corruptions.. considering the influence of the military on Pakistan... further, what OPPOSITION did Zia face in a military gov't, and what ability did they ahve, considering the army has always had a stranglehold on the gov't? I have family members who favor Zia, and all of them say acknowledge that he was involved even with the Sikh movements.. that's why it pretyy much died with the end of Zia..

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:47am)

I am not in a position to judge the feasibility of an independent Kashmir state, but I am in a position to judge somewhat the feasibility of a state inside Pakistan...

Login to find out (June 28, 2005 at 10:46am)

Labs... the point was not to give a solution... I wanted to know what people's perspective on the new wave of politics going on.. primarily from those on the INDIAN side of Kashmir, especially considering they know how they are treated and what they have suffered from the politics of both sides...

Login to find out (June 27, 2005 at 10:00pm)

Okay lets leave Pakistan aside for a second.... so what do you "Know" about the indian government and its so called democratic leaders...How do you know that India is a better option? , what is your basis for suggesting that kashmir shlould stay with india, just because they have elections and they elect a PM that stays in power for the apoinment period doesn?t make them a better country or society. If that was the case they would never have any problems with the minorities, there would be no hindu Muslim riots, no sikhs would have been massacred, no Tamil gorillas blowing up stuff and so on. And you think there is no feudal system in India? no corruption in the Indian government and semi-private sectors? You actually believe that their government body is a result of just and fair elections and they have a better legal system in place than us?

Login to find out (June 27, 2005 at 9:51pm)

Khiladi, when I said rural I did not mean mud huts with oil lamps hanging on the door, Muzzaffarabad is less developed in comparison with the bigger cities and that is why I called it a rural area not a gawoon. Secondly it is not a matter of being gullible, but perceiving only what one wants to believe or forming opinions based on very limited information is not wise either. What happened during generla zias rule is a long debate , he is balmed for innumerous things, from helping altaf hussain form MQM in the early nineties to supporting afghanis for his white gold, but that still doesn?t justify your suggestions for kashmir. How do you know that General zia supported the sikhs and that was not done by the opposition party at that time.
That was another propaganda created by the Indian media and the blame they tried to put on Pakistan to hide their own mistreatment of the minorities and their inability to deal justly with them, similarly as they blame the resistance in kashmir on Pakistan , so that they can hide their own atrocities.

Login to find out (June 27, 2005 at 9:19pm)

khiladi, so you want to discount pakistan as an option. but you can't suggest anything better?! tsk..

Login to find out (June 27, 2005 at 10:27am)

I have no idea Labs.. none whatsoever...

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Kashmir, a dead issue???

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Kashmir, a dead issue???

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