agree.. not in favour of ppl from the west barging into other countries to 'sort out' their politics.... funny how it never happend in bosnia till it was far too late as we didn't have any interests there.. plus all those muslims thriving in our back yard in an unharmed state were probably a threat in themselves :(

also i don't see us rushing in to correct/ help the helpless in china/ korea/ sudan/ chechnya/ other dictatorships... it's only ever iran and pakistan who are next on the hit list...

the taliban were definitely a nasty regime.. they singlehandedly reduced two generations of women to housebound, invisible imbeciles.. whether they were teachers/ doctors/ architects or schoolgirls on the verge of becoming something similar.. an insult to islam, which was established largely to protect women's rights

also interesting to see the israelis deluding themselves on the causes of terrorism.... news.bbc.co.uk

I gotta agree with ABS to a certain extent....the afghan regime was a brutal regime.....i have a few afghani friends who all fled to the uk because of the regime....i for one am glad that the taliban have finally taken a fall....i'm not entirely happy with the way the states decided on attacking afghanistan...but in my books....anything has got to be better, then living under the taliban regime.

Zztopp...mate i really don't know what you're getting at. Yes there are lots of muslims in London, not just pakistanis. But there are lots of muslims in NY and Madrid also.

The fact is London's Friday prayers went peacefully because Londoners on the whole are tolerant and peaceful, and intelligent enough not to believe these fukking terrorist bast*rds had anything to do with Islam.

sam, now you have hit the nail on the head. let me address a couple of points that you raised.

"They did stop the Drug problem in Afghanistan", and at the same time they also stop any advancement in industrialism, cultural tolerance (how can anyone not remember the destruction of thousand of years old budist temple/ idols), and empathy. During their time of ruling, people fled from the country, every one was afraid of saying anything, or speaking to strangers, like as if there is a spy reality show going on, but the sad part of it is that there was no ending of the show in sight. When you look around and see the various disperspent of afghans in various other nations, you have gotta say, there must me something wrong over there or else why would flocks and flocks of people migrate. Germany, austrailia, canada, us, are the major countries where you would find afghans in large numbers. Germany to afghans is like UK to kashmiries, i think almost everyone can relate to that.
Anyways, it is my opinion, that talibaan did more damage in their ruling to afghanistan's global image and the state itself than any body from outside.

ooo, labs, let me get my glasses, its a bit sunny in here. lol :), whats with the orange color, hehe!

there was no mosque trouble in london cuz the pakistani -muslim community is HUGE there - i think theres like a million pakis in london itself.

i think that ... yes there are huge issues - for muslims everywhere - when we can't remotely get our house in order and the west can then use this as an excuse to waltz in and 'take care' of things for us...

there has to be better dialogue and a proper resolution to the conflicts in palestine, iraq etc. BUT there is still NO justification for terrorism ....

as a spanish government minister pointed out on tv the other day, you can negotiate and try to 'please these people' all you want, but then they will always find another excuse to seize on to try to justify their sick whims

yes there are issues that need to be discussed and it is a sad reflection on us as muslims all over the world if western governments are able to push their agendas in the absence of anyone else showing leadership..

or if the only peace that takes place does so only as a result of atrocities taking place which put these issues in the spotlight

Abshaw.......I am not even for a second going to think that the Americans have DONE ANYTHING for AFghani people......if they really cared for afghanistan, where the hell have they been for the past 20 years?! Don't listen to all the propanganda news you hear about the Taliban. There are plenty of reports by people who are part of Medicine sans Frontier and the Red Cross who have worked along side the Taliban and have only good things to say about them. I am not saying that the Taliban are completely good......the main problem with them is that they are mostly lacking in educations.....pretty much like the entire nation......They did stop the Drug problem in Afghanistan.....and since the Taliban have fallen, the drug problem there is HUGE! My only point is that you should try to get both sides of the story.......which apparently in the west.......not many people do. I am not going to justify the WRONG acts that the Taliban are doing........not any more so than that of the western nations. If in fact it 'seems' like the Americans are 'helping' Muslims........its not because they care about them........I mean WTH?! They all of a sudden care about Iraqi people yet for soo many years they had placed an embargo on them?! PLease don't tell me the about the 'good' things that Americans have done for ANY Muslim country.....all they can care about is setting up their puppet regimes in EVERY single Muslim country there is......so that they can have the entire world wrapped around their finger tips!!!!!!!!!!

The people who carried out thursdays cowardly act are criminals and murderers of the worst kind. Unfortunately they try and justify their barbaric acts by saying they are mulims fighting for God.

Thankfully most Londoners see through their lies. As far as i know there was no trouble at any of the London mosques yesterday. That is why London is the greatest city and won the bid instead of NY, Madrid, Paris or Moscow.

We as Londones will mourn our dead, and bury them during the coming week, but we will also live our lives without fear.

We are first and foremost human beings. The London community will hopefully show the world that it is communiteies that defeat these bastards by staying united.

May peace be upon us all.

clapping for Sam77.

now some serious issues. Yes, america capetbombed in both places so did the others, ok agreed that they are the so called "enemies".

But do you know what was happening before america bombed afghanistan. Women were not allowed to go out from their houses, i dont know if you saw a documentry by "nadia ....." from uk that showed all of the "great islamic deeds" that talibaan were doing to thier muslim brothers and sister, how can you justify their acts?
If someone didnt show up for prayers, they beat him and in a couple of cases even killed people. Who gave them right to terminate another life. If they are not able to generate life how can they even think of terminating one.
I spent 6 years of my life in Kohat (just south of peshawar) and another 6 in Peshawar, Pakistan. Do you know how many refugee camps are there in peshawar, do you know how many people moved from afghanistan to pakistan, because of the "unbearable love" that their talibaan brothers were showing.
What about the famous, football ground shooting, where they executed a woman for adultry, shot here dead on blank point.

If this was not enough, they decided on behalf of all the people in the country that they all want to shelter bin ladin, so they all agreed to pay the price. So what did the american do wrong, o yeah, they put the women back to school, they brought some orphans to the us to they can see what they couldnt ever in their entire lives. They opened up new industries, and allocated recorces to help the damn lame country (sorry got carried away) on its own legs. Wow great injustise.


As for Iraq, yes pre war, what an example of muslims treating other muslims with honor and respect, in the prisons of hell, families were seperated for decades with knowing even if their loved one is still alive or not.
People could not speak openly cause saddam's malitia and secret service was always there to make sure that there is not male left to even concider cue against the "loved" leader.
What a great example of leadership with not only utenciles but armory molded in gold was there, where hundreds and thousands of other muslims slept behind bars night after night. Because of the absurd killing of all men, no body in the army was over 25, all kids went to war, what happens, 3 days and they all return to their homes, where is the love, i ask?

And lets not go any further, what about the great islamic shield bearers, "zakawi & corp.", how are they justifying killing not only another muslim, but dozens of them, in police stations, in schools, in mosques. Is that the teachings of islam? I seriously doubt that

and yet my dear you ask what did america do?

And everyone can say all they want that those were not real Muslims....sure thats probably true because Allah says that He rewards those who go through hardship with patience (such as our dear brothers and sisters who are suffering in alestine, Kashmir, Iraq, Chechnya, Guantanamo Bay...literally all over the world) but Fact remains that their is a reason why some poeple Muslim or not feel the need to attack certain countries with their terrorist acts....so why not eliminate the reason for people wanting to do such things!? Why don't terrorist attacks happen in say Switzerland!? Do you guys seriously feel less sorry for our Muslims who die at the hand of terrorist acts, than the non-Muslims who do? I quite frankly see the death of any person, Muslim or non-Muslim as being equally horrible......and I want the insanity to stop......but it only will when both sides stop....and the West thinking that higher security will do the trick are just avoiding the real issue.....and will unfortunately continue to pay for it very badly. I living in Canada don't want to have to take the bus in fear...but I think people all over the world would like to live in Peace....and many don't

Look, I understand that nothing can justify such atrocious acts.....but if its is infact 'muslims' who are commiting such horrible acts.....we need to focus on the root of the problem. Take for example the Columbine High School Shootings. What those two kids did was horrible but, trying to put in metal detectors in school, trying to get parents to lock up guns etc.....will only work to a certain extent. Only once we eliminate bullying, will we eliminate the need of children to kill their classmates. Now, the root of the terrosist acts is the terrorist acts that England and the US are commiting in so many countries all over the world....the difference is that the Western countries use their wealth to commit their terrorist acts....while these 'muslims' the means that they have...... their lives and bombs to commit theirs. Do you know that the US killed so many innocent civilians in Afghanistan with their carpet bombing of an entire nation....many times the amount that died in the 9/11 attacks. All my friends are non-Muslim, and they know better than to say to me or any Muslim that what the 'muslim' terrorists are doing is wrong.....because it is no more worse than the terrorist acts of the west. Can you seriously imagine a ship of Iraqi troops coming towards american land.....they would be blown out of the water...how on earth is american troops being on Iraqi soil any different? Oh yeah....I forgot because Americans are the good guys and everyone else is bad right?! I swear, I'm sick and tired of the two-faced nature of the west and I for not even a second feel the need to be apologetic for the act of so-called Muslims. What goes around, comes around.....honestly....we are living during such B#%s#$t times where no one stops to think about what really is giong on....and where the media has brainwashed every single one of us.....

True, i m so afraid of going to masjid cuz i don't know what to wear to masji

Yehbandishain and Mila28 - i agree. good point, mila, about the mosques. i couldnt agree more. so much could be done there - but isnt. it turns into a culturally segregated group that just socializes and gossips in the name of Islam. sad.

ISNA, MSA and other muslim committees in US or any where in the world should work on it instead of playing only matrimonial role in their conventions.

We should be MORE UNITED in our Communities....Stop having these Saturday, Sunday, Dawwaths.....AKA....Gossip Bashes....Start comming togather at your Mosque on the weekends and talk as a community with the children and families, and make plans for change....WE need to fight against this..because THIS is NOT ISLAM....THIS IS NOT what we are about, these Bombs and Destruction.....
We need to TEACH people that Islam is a Peacful way of life....Not this!!!

absolutely yehbandishain, we have to re-emphasise and concentrate on the good in our religion so te errant factions are forced to choke on their nasty illogical rhetoric.. in times like these, a lot of politicians/ community/ asian/ church leaders here always come out with the statement 'Islam means peace' which sounds so good compared to what you expect to hear

fon, i read somewhere that in the aftermath of 9/11 a man had to excorted off a plane because passengers refused to travel with him (he looked arab) - if you think about it, it's an extension of the usual police tactics.. (stop and search being applied to black/ asian youths more often than others)

I'm a 911 survivor and a new yorker. I remember hearing the strong anti-muslim rhetoric from many after 911. Unfortunately I did hear some of it again yesterday and was very saddened by it. Question to ask is what can we as muslims do on many levels other then education. What responsibility do muslim states have for keeping in check the money which comes out of their citizen's/peoples bank accounts which fund terrorist organizations? Just some things to think about.

yesterday a work colleague of mine was ferreid across the thames because the trains were out.....anyway the boat was packed with people trying to get home....all of a sudden a police boat pulled up along side the boat she was in............... and they interrogated a guy on her boat.......one guy out of about a couple of hundred or so people.......and all because he was 'middle easten' looking and had a bag and was talking on his mobile.

My colleague said the poor bloke looked completely freightened and she felt for him.....someone had obviously called the police and all because he looked 'middle eastern'.

I was so angry when i heard this........it just makes my blood boil.

absahw, agree totally, we have to be more visible and louder than extremists and turn the next generation of extremists away from what these people are teaching them, also agree that we have been too afraid in the past to challenge them