Ali,
It's great to have these discussions....It's rare to find people who trust their faith enough to try and understand it as thoroughly as you are.

I don't think that people who question the dynamics of their faith will ever be misled - especially when they are searching for Islam in it's purest form, without the stains of human interference. They will find it, but the path they take is different than the rest of those who fear to question.

Thank you for doing this :)

Atabbarra: Peace bro! ;) I didn't get upset my friend, but like many Middle easterns, I tend to get a bit heated in a discussion. I know that while in Lebanon I should avoid discussing politics and religion, since i may end up being surrounded by enemies and angry people. I am glad that this question triggered reactions, and i surely learned a lot from you all. Thank you :)

Atabbara: I just went though my previous entries to check... I never mentionned islam being a "new version" as you claimed I said. Please make sure you know what you are referring to and make sure you read my entries carefully before replying. Thank you

Atabbara: Thank you for your additions my friend. True, Boudhists and Atheists have different takes on afterlife then monotheistic religions. How can anyone know what the truth is? I believe that the beholder of the ultimate truth is God. As a human being, I am limited by my senses and by what was transmitted to me from other human beings and from my environment. How can I be so certain that my beliefs of afterlife are true? What if there is no afterlife? What if reincarnation exists? What if? That's what I mean by faith and spirituality. I don't think you can achieve certainty with religion. You have to believe, period. As for islam being the "new version", well, what tells us that there isn't another prophet with another message spreading a new message on earth? Have you heard of the Bahai faith? They claim to be the continuation of Islam. What if they are? I think that ultimately we have to respect others' beliefs and even try to learn from them to complete our deen. That's how I see thing.

Westcoastgurl: I agree with your points; people tend to find comfort in what they know and believe in and try to impose it on others to seal that comfort. No one wants to believe that he is on the wrong track, or that he's practicing the wrong or an outdated faith, or believing in the wrong God(s). Like no one wants to buy a computer only to find out a week later that the new version was released. I think reality has more then one figure, and I don't think Islam offers the only truth and answers to all questions. I think all religions, including Jadaism, Boudhism, Mysticism, Chrisianism... are legitimate and help their believers achieve spirituality and inner peace. It is how close to God you get that matters.

I've tried taking Qur'anic arabic classes in my city - with at least 5 different instructors. Unfortunately, each of the instructors attempt to preach their own sect's interpretation (even though it's not necessary when you're teaching/learning the grammar, vocabulary, etc).

I refuse to sit and listen to someone who tells me that even though the verb forms are important, it is even MORE important to understand how group x has PROPERLY made the interpretations.....

No one wants to teach the arabic without bringing their personal interpretations into the classroom. It's unfortunate b/c I've only just started out, and now I have to stop b/c there is too much dissention and bias.

Of course, I can easily continue to teach myself, but it's not as good as having someone there to help you when you get stuck (believe me, I try to breakdown and analyze EVERY aspect of a language, and it can take a VERY long time without an expert to answer my questions)

Atabbara: My friend, you have misunderstood my point again, but that's ok. I'll leave it at that.

it is like someone who isn't master of english litterature trying to read old shakespear.

Atabbara: I have the impression that you misunderstood my point my friend. My point is that the Coran isn't accessible to everyone. You should be a master of the arabic language to understand its subtilities. So reading it without the right background is like an arab reading a persian journal. You'll be able to read it, but will you understand it?

Attabara: you're right my friend, I suck at arabic... I just finished elementary school arabic and never took any arabic courses since (i.e. I speak 3 second languages... no first language). I truly agree that we need scholars that are highly knowledgeable of the arabic language to understand the Coran and perhaps to agree with other scholars on one Tafsir that wouldn't leave any place for the A7bbesh & cie to brainwash or spread a distorted version of islam. As for the Coran being written in an old prose arabic, I read that in the 2 arab history books I read so far. I don't know wheather they are right or not, but what they said seemed logical. Apparently in Jahilyyah time, prose poetry was very popular in tribes to spread the good words about their tribe, their men, women, camels, etc. I am not an authority on the subject, but that's what I read.

I hear u Atabbara,in syria and esp Damas we have a huge women group called"kobaysyat"k as the letter after fa2.It's a group named after a syrian lady of the kobaysi family.They do these traditional deen classes and they keep chasing little naive girls to brain wash them.They have a strong social and educational system.They r so popular now.U can't meet a muslim syrian girl who hasn't tried their gatherings once or twice the least.U can easily recognize the organised ones of them from their uniform.They wear it all the time anywhere and everywhere.If a girl is not one of them,she's not as religious in their consept.
The scariest part is that now u can see them in OC.wallah i was so shocked when i lived there for a while to see muslim girls rush to their classes here too,they gave up on the uniform here though.

my opinion is that it really scares people to think outside the box like timacakes already said (by the way you told me that story and that's not cool, i'm sorry)...by the way our other other friend: her husband was asked to lead the prayer at his work but then they told him that he can't since he's not a muslim because he's shia (tima you know who i'm talking about) our society punishes people for thinking differently and more innovatively....the prophets themselves were presecuted for doing so....when i meet a noble person, i recognize that they have faults and make mistakes but still admire and respect them for their nobleness.....i wouldn't go as far as making sure that i had the exact same haircut or wear the same clothes, but when you know of someone of that calibre you want to better yourself to be the same way....expecially since they came so close to god...and that's what we try to get to, closer to god..we admire abraham, jesus, joseph, john, mary, moses and his mother, muhammed (peace be upon them), mother teresa...they are not equal in calibre but they have all done things selflessly...risked their lives in trust that god is ther for them, because they've come so close to him.....so people try to do the same in hopes that they too become closer to god and become better people who love their brothers and sisters in life....that's my take on it...

With all religions, there are going to be people who disagree with anyone who has a different interpretation.
It scares people to consider that they may be doing something that they shouldn't, so they tend to lash out at others, or close themselves to different p.o.v.
There are tons of relg studies academia that study this stuff!

Islam is a religion of tolerance, but many people cannot emulate this if they are wrapped up in practicing Islam a certain way, and shutting out others for practicing another way.
I can tell you from personal experience, that I had one girl who denounced me as a heretic, but said that she still considered me to be one of her (and I quote) "best non-muslim friends"
I was shocked to hear that from someone who spends her days living by the Prophet's example. Then again, she thought every other girl claiming to be a muslimah but doesn't wear hijaab is heretic. Oh well, at least I did better than her in Arabic class (H)

I think at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is our intentions and how we try to integrate the Prophet's (pbuh) examples into our lives.

ali, I think, and just like sura said i don't want to give "fatwa" because i'm not up to it, but i think that people try to follow what the prophet pbuh did because Allah swt told us to follow His book and "sunnata rasoolehi". but those who over dot it...i don't think it's right.

Thank you for your intelligent and diverse input. I am glad to read your different points of views. It just indicates to me that although Islam is one, its interpretations are multiple. I have another question to you: Unlike in today's christianity, our faith believes that the prophet was human, and that no one is perfect but Allah, Jalla jalaluh. Now why is it that in 2005 we are so obscessed by living our lives as close to that of the prophet did 1500 years ago? I don't think the prophet road a Mercedes or took a plane to Madina, or wore Nike shoes. Why is it so important to do things such as "stepping in the bathroom with the left foot" and "putting the right arm on top of the left" if you're sunni or "letting the one on your right pass before you"... these are some of the obvious ones among many others. why? Some people seem to worship the prophet and do things he did to the letter. I respect that, but I am trying to understand.

i think everyone has a point here. we should definately question, we should definately let go sometimes and go with what our hearts believe and sometimes we need to follow what others before us have set for us. My problem is, when I want to evaluate or change something, I need to really know it inside out before I can make a descision . I take what I feel, what I see and what I know into account. What I know will be influenced by my life, which makes it even harder to make an objective judgment. For example, yarah and ali when you have new patients and you want to find out if they have a cavity (please forgive my ignorance i am going by what happens when i go to the dentist), you take an xray before deciding whether they have a cavity or not. you can't just rely on their symptoms which are subjective . So before we decide to judge or change something we really need to know and be an expert on what we are evaluating. I don't even feel comfortable to agree or disagree with ali right now, because I don't know... and the ultimate judgement is not up to me (thank god).....I know that even though I am an arab speaker, I may not be paying attention in my prayer and do things blindly...someone once told me that at least keeping the lines of communication between you and god is better than nothing...and i thought, why? then i thought well if someone gives me a gift, i usually give them a better one in return. so, if god is giving me all these gifts and He has asked me to thank him in a certain way, then maybe that's how i should do it. whether he accepts my thanks or not, even though I am saying it in arabic, I have no clue. In my heart, I don't believe that we should do anything blindly...but then am I changing islam to suit me? should i be working harder (ie doing jihad) do make myself understand better which would make it easier to perform? Did god implant in me enough instinct to know the right thing without ever studying it or learning it? there are tribes who have never had any contact with prophets who have the instinct to pray and worship. but what is the correct way to do this? what's acceptable by god's standards? how do we know if we are right?

I agree with both of u too,what u r saying makes sense a %100.I don't think God cares what language u recite your prayers with as long as it's adequate but onlly Allah knows.Wcg,I also agree on that translation doesn't always hold the same exact meaning.
The majority of muslims,and I can relate to that in a way,even if they want to be real and start questioning things in our islamic rituals and life habits and by time they become convinced that Islam has to slightly accomodate our needs in the present,how far could we go?I mean look at the previous religions how devided they are,they almost have totally different beliefs.This concerns me so much sometimes.Who am I to say this is how it should be or this is what is right.
One more thing,our prophet pbuh mentioned that anyone who leads ppl to a wrong path will gain his/her sin of practicing it and the sins of everyone s/he misled.
I agree it's allowed and even more encouraged to question and brain storm in islam but in the same time it's a huge resposibility that very few muslims can take.
On a personal level,I do question and do agree and disagree with our rituals specifically,I try to follow The Quran,sunnah,pure instinct sometimes and logic someother times but i can not say what I'm doing is the right thing at all and at the end we're all going back to Allah and he's going to be the judge.
Btw Ali,the Quran was written in the life of the prophet pbuh but was'nt put together in one book till after his death,that's what I remember i read long time ago.

Ali, what is praying? it is actually all du3aa'.right?even the "Fati7a" is a du3a.praying is a way of communicating with Allah swt. And no matter what people tell you, you are free to say du3a in ANY language you want!Allah swt will definitely understand you!!no matter what anybody says!! But the Coran is in arabic, and if you read it and not understand it isn't a waste of time as you might think, actually you'd get extra credit for attempting to read it. Their is a haddeth that says that if you read the Coran you get ajir, and if you read it with difficulty you get double the aajir. When you feel you want to understand the Coran,this means a lot! it's just great that you feel that. your friend should be happy that you feel that way,and he should probably encourage you to seek its meaning in english , if this is the language you feel comfortable with.and i think having questions about your religion is also something beautiful.it means you want to know more about it, thus getting you closer to Allah swt. the Coran is very powerful, it has a lot of secrets we don't even know about, so even if you don't understand it, it's not "lying" if you read it, but ifcourse if you want to seek its meaning, do so i nwhichever language you wish! ali, if the prophet saaws had been as close minded as your friend, i don't think islam would be what it is today...don't you know the hadeeth " Otlobo al 3ilma wa law fi al-seen" (seek knowldege even if in china)? so, don't let people like this guy hold you back.

Ali, I completely agree with you. In my case, I was born and raised to speak english, and never had the opportunity to formally learn arabic until I decided to take the classes offered at university.
From a young age, we were expected to memorize and properly recite the prayers, but the emphasis was never on understanding. It defeats the purpose of prayer if you cannot understand what you are saying, because Allah is beyond words and mere sound.

If Allah is All-Knowing and Merciful, then why should it matter if prayers are in arabic or not, and if there is neeyat and you are heartfelt?

On the other hand, there is the issue with maintaining traditions and trying to live your life as the Prophet (pbuh) did; or the reasoning is that the Holy Qur'an was revealed in arabic (that makes the language sacred - as Allah intended).

It could also be that any other language does not adequately translate the arabic - after all, one word in arabic can have something like 50 different meanings.

Frankly, many people are afraid to question the religion as it is established, but we need to remember that religion is the human's method to approach the Divine, and we as humans are flawed in every way.

I'm not saying that Islam is flawed (in fact, it is the final perfected path given to us by Allah), but I am saying that the way humans practice Islam is flawed - especially when the Ummah has people who are not willing to consider the idea, and denounce you as heretical to even think of reciting the prayers in a language which you understand.