> rites of passage

> Is age the only determination for the achievement of the next "tier" of seniority, or are there trials of initiation which must be performed/endured before the attainment of the next phase? (The various stages of male physical and psycho-social development which are characterised by your path. )
(an "In my opinion" disclaimer here - I am interested in hearing different opinions!)

There are some tiers which are not related to age:

Fatherhood is definitely a trial that has no age barrier - and some men go through their life without ever becoming one (to me, fatherhood is more than just donating sperm)

Warriorhood (Armed forces, protecting your family, protecting others weaker than yourself) is a trial that some men will never have to face, and others will. It is a right-of-passage to know that you can protect those that need it - and the only way to pass this rite is to do it. Although men who do not do it should not be considered "below standard" - I do believe its a right-of-passage, but I don't believe that all men go through it or need to go through it. I personally feel that I haven't. Time will tell whether it is something that I will face one day.

Age/maturity stages of man (general outlines)

* boy - gender is an abstract concept, knows there are differences between boys and girls, but that's about it. * teenager - gender is an issue, girls become strange, interaction with other boys rather than girls, learning how to be a man (or adult)

* young man - late teens usually - entering the world of the adult (cars, alcohol, relationships). Need for maturity and taking responsibility.

* mature man - late 20's to mid 30's - being in positions of responsibility, contributing to society, being a role-model for boys/teenagers/young men, has variety of life experience

* elder/grandfather - 50's to 60's - being in position of advisor. Huge array of life experience - bless actions of young men and mature men, guides teenagers, story teller

> how do you feel when you interact with these hierarchies? Do you believe the interaction to be better facilitated by a hierarchy due to knowing where you stand with these folks?
Sometimes I think it would help me and my relationship with people in these "hierarchies" if I (and they) knew where I stood and they (and I) knew where they stood, maybe...

I know that through my life, I have often created my own personal "rite of passage" due to a personal need for one and none being offered or available. This was before I even knew what a "rite of passage" was.

Certainly in a "pagan community" there is need for a bit of social structure which is currently absent. To be a part of that community and interact with it, it is essential to have the male age/experience hierarchies so that boys and men know their place and know not only what is expected of them, but what will be expected of them at the next stage - and so what their place in society is.
> Do you ever feel marginalised by that hierarchy because you are outside of it?

> How do the folks from more rigidly structured paths of spiritual and social development feel when they interact with self-initiated individuals? Does this cause you problems in establishing an appropriate mode of interaction with such people?