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Syriana
I can't read the Journal about it but I want to discuss this movie very much. I think it was a great attempt to deal, with a very difficult topic.
Wow excellent points, Badmash. The parallels you pointed out between Socrates and current Western governments is an extremely astute observation. Never occurred to me. Very true what you say about Korea. Like you said, those embargoes are slapped onto the little guys because it can be enforced with little or no reprecussions. Similarly, try enforcing anything on any powerful entities (like your own wealthy citizens or politicans) and see how far that gets you.... ah well, i am sure things will be different when I run the world.
Good point Wasif. I also read that article and totally agree. For example look at the whole North Korea issue. Here is a country who openly defies Non-nuclear policies and test fires missles that land out in the middle of the Pacific, which could most likely reach our west coast. Here is a country who clearly has Weapons of Mass Destruction. Why haven't we invaded them? Where are the strict embargoes that they slap on countries like Iran, Pakistan, and other countries at the slightest slip up?
North Korea is a vested interest of China. China says you bother North Korea, you bother us. China also has a Army of 1,000,000 combat arm troops. Nevertheless China is an emerging market. A consumer market of over a billion people waiting to be tapped. American companies which I won't name, but I happen to work for one of them has billions of dollars invested over there, who happen to have Congress by the -/balls-/ and say "Hey man don't f--k with my money" so Congress backs down. Because they do not want to cause any volatility and potentially jeopoardize all that capital. Because come re-election time who is going to make those donations and back those same politicians so they can get re-elected.
Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Look at Socrates he was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable.
Haven?t seen Munich yet, saw the previews at Syriana and am looking very forward to seeing it. Not sure that I agree that Syriana made everything clear. Personally, I think they made the movie hard to follow on purpose. Perhaps they were trying to show the Foreign Policy Engine of a powerful nation as flawed, convoluted. When you throw in the influence of all of the other countries in there, its even more confusing.
I just read an interesting issue on democracy in this November Time Magazine issue. It showed many flaws within the democtratic system in the U.S.. For example, politicians cow-tow to whoever has the most power on every issue ? meaning large corporations or nations. Very rarely are issues judged/laws passed because on their merit. Maybe not the right forum but you guys seem to have intelligent opinions. So I am posing it to you: is democracy the most just form of ruling a nation?
I agree with you chikpalees........... we Muslims often complain that there are no good Muslims left in our Muslim nations. There are, but they are killed, tortured and silenced by the American puppet types. I thought the movie was great.
I cringed when that Muslim guy (at a party drinking and smoking with scantily clad woman around all over the place) who was buying the weapons from Clooney at the begining of the movie was asked (by Clooney) when they are going to get giong with their deal and the guy says , "after prayer'.....
Its a sad but VERY TRUE relection of what the young generation is like in many of these Muslim countries........not all of course, but way too many
thanx wasif! appreciate it....wow...i didn't know that was the same grenade...ur right that is a very powerful statement! the reason i liked this movie a lot was that it presented both sides without a finger-pointing biased point of view towards either side... cuz most of the attempts made with these kind of movies are always leaning towards one end...and i agree it is a myriad of issues that continue to increase the problem hence all the intertwining plots in the movie...it's all a loop...everything one side does affects the other and i'm so glad they made that clear
and yah being a poli sci major...all this hidden political deviance is no longer a surprise to me...it's sooo disturbing seeing people that are capable of making a difference being pushed to the side...i.e. prince nasir in the movie
In the beginning, Clooney was doing an arms deal with two Persians. They were drinking and partying, then they came to a place. Clooney sold them 2 grenade launcher looking things, then one of them was immediately taken by a "terrorist type" who turned out to be the one who coaxed the Pakistani boy to turn terrorist and blow up the oil tanker. Anyway, that car exploded because Clooeny blew them up, he didn't know that the second grenade launcher thing was going to the terrorist. Typical CIA blowback: that same thing was used to blow up the ship at the end of the movie. Subtle but powerful statement.
I agree they could have made it flow better, but I was greatful to see the "big picture" for a change. At least this movie showed the myriad of aspects involved in the foreign policy of powerful nations. Personally, I think the Powerful Elite like to keep the general population ignorant - its easier for them. Otherwise they would have named "Operation Iraqi Freedom" something like "Operation We Want Your Oil And You Cant Do Nothin About It".
i just saw it...i think it was kinda poorly put together cuz the plot was jumping from one thing to the next...and you had to constantly do a re-run in your head about what had happened before....they could have done a better job making it flow better...
despite that though i do think it was an amazing movie...cuz i agree it's a very difficult topic to address...so many people are blinded to the reality of the situation especially those that are out of tune with politics....it really hit home
i make fun of my friends for crying at the movies but i was the one that got all teary eyed this time...especially towards the end...and what's up with that nail pulling torture!!
as for the urdu speakers...i was just glad to get a break from reading the captions... so no complaints here...however i must say subhan'Allah Arabic is such a beautiful language...you could appreciate that fact in this movie...out of all the languages uttered it was the most pleasing to hear
anyway...i missed the first 5 minutes or so of the movie up until the part where the car exploded and clooney was walking away...can anyone fill me in before that?
So I just saw the movie. Didn't pick up on racism for the black lawyer. Any particular instance or just a feeling?
Did other people see a parallel with Haliburton and the oil company (Celine Dione Kleenex or something)?
This might be a stretch but how about The Vulcans (hard liners for the Iraq war) - scooter libby et al not the Star Trek ones) and CLI (Committe for Liberating Iran)? It seemed like a slam dunk to me but other who saw it didn't see it.
All in all I think the movie was excellent - I don't see a lot of folks in this country liking it too much or even understanding it. lol the people seated next to me seemed ever so confused.
Ahhh what a sensitive an intelligent human being you are Brookline!!!! I am astounded to find out that ?Gay? is a race. I don?t like people who are racist against motorcyclists or clowns.
?if one lazy a*s black get fired for not working, the whole world falls apart?
I am sure unintentionally you just made a ?minor? racist comment. Very true that racism is basic human nature, some people take to it like pigs in slop and some people try to better themselves by not making comments like the one you just made. Its amazing to me when minorities marginalize racism as being something ?minor? ? I wonder if it?s a denial issue or if they really just don?t go through what most of us do.
Agreed Badmash, both about racism and the latent issues in the world. I will comment on the choice of the desi male actors used, they were not native Urdu/hindi speakers and it showed, I am sure that would not be a problem for a wide majority of the audience but it was distracting for me since I am native speaker.
It was a good movie. It could have beeb put together a little better. There were multiple plots going on, but the director could have done a better job tying it all together. As for the events of the movie, they are a harsh reality, this is how the world operates. In the end greed and desire for economic dominance breeds hatred, racism, and unfortunately suicide bombers.
As for racism, it existed years ago, and exists today, but runs underground. Wake up! Just because you don't witness racism in your nice suburban life it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. The majority of people are still ignorant in terms of racial equality, and cultural diversity is moving slow as a turtle.
Well, ok from the get go, the movie had no female characters! which was odd, but also shows you the world that is out there, its harsh and its "old fashioned" its while and its saudi, its big money and big oil and all the little people in the world, be it would be suicide bombers or Matt Damon's character and his kid are just cannon fodder.... I also thought the way the movie subtly dealt with racism in the US in terms of teh black attotney was genious, it was understated but extremely impactful.
Comments on this journal
The United States is actually a republic!
North Korea is a vested interest of China. China says you bother North Korea, you bother us. China also has a Army of 1,000,000 combat arm troops. Nevertheless China is an emerging market. A consumer market of over a billion people waiting to be tapped. American companies which I won't name, but I happen to work for one of them has billions of dollars invested over there, who happen to have Congress by the -/balls-/ and say "Hey man don't f--k with my money" so Congress backs down. Because they do not want to cause any volatility and potentially jeopoardize all that capital. Because come re-election time who is going to make those donations and back those same politicians so they can get re-elected.
Simply stated, a democracy is a dictatorship of the majority. Look at Socrates he was executed by a democracy: though he harmed no one, the majority found him intolerable.
I just read an interesting issue on democracy in this November Time Magazine issue. It showed many flaws within the democtratic system in the U.S.. For example, politicians cow-tow to whoever has the most power on every issue ? meaning large corporations or nations. Very rarely are issues judged/laws passed because on their merit. Maybe not the right forum but you guys seem to have intelligent opinions. So I am posing it to you: is democracy the most just form of ruling a nation?
Syriana was good as well. It had a good point. The desire for economic dominance gives birth to all kinds of chaos.
I cringed when that Muslim guy (at a party drinking and smoking with scantily clad woman around all over the place) who was buying the weapons from Clooney at the begining of the movie was asked (by Clooney) when they are going to get giong with their deal and the guy says , "after prayer'.....
Its a sad but VERY TRUE relection of what the young generation is like in many of these Muslim countries........not all of course, but way too many
and yah being a poli sci major...all this hidden political deviance is no longer a surprise to me...it's sooo disturbing seeing people that are capable of making a difference being pushed to the side...i.e. prince nasir in the movie
I agree they could have made it flow better, but I was greatful to see the "big picture" for a change. At least this movie showed the myriad of aspects involved in the foreign policy of powerful nations. Personally, I think the Powerful Elite like to keep the general population ignorant - its easier for them. Otherwise they would have named "Operation Iraqi Freedom" something like "Operation We Want Your Oil And You Cant Do Nothin About It".
despite that though i do think it was an amazing movie...cuz i agree it's a very difficult topic to address...so many people are blinded to the reality of the situation especially those that are out of tune with politics....it really hit home
i make fun of my friends for crying at the movies but i was the one that got all teary eyed this time...especially towards the end...and what's up with that nail pulling torture!!
as for the urdu speakers...i was just glad to get a break from reading the captions... so no complaints here...however i must say subhan'Allah Arabic is such a beautiful language...you could appreciate that fact in this movie...out of all the languages uttered it was the most pleasing to hear
anyway...i missed the first 5 minutes or so of the movie up until the part where the car exploded and clooney was walking away...can anyone fill me in before that?
Did other people see a parallel with Haliburton and the oil company (Celine Dione Kleenex or something)?
This might be a stretch but how about The Vulcans (hard liners for the Iraq war) - scooter libby et al not the Star Trek ones) and CLI (Committe for Liberating Iran)? It seemed like a slam dunk to me but other who saw it didn't see it.
All in all I think the movie was excellent - I don't see a lot of folks in this country liking it too much or even understanding it. lol the people seated next to me seemed ever so confused.
?if one lazy a*s black get fired for not working, the whole world falls apart?
I am sure unintentionally you just made a ?minor? racist comment. Very true that racism is basic human nature, some people take to it like pigs in slop and some people try to better themselves by not making comments like the one you just made. Its amazing to me when minorities marginalize racism as being something ?minor? ? I wonder if it?s a denial issue or if they really just don?t go through what most of us do.
As for racism, it existed years ago, and exists today, but runs underground. Wake up! Just because you don't witness racism in your nice suburban life it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. The majority of people are still ignorant in terms of racial equality, and cultural diversity is moving slow as a turtle.
What did you think