i agree, i'm in egypt right now, and the hijab isn't a real sign if a girls good or not, there are some scandelous things goin on around here

TV is not to blame, Dish is not to blame, internet is not to blame, etc..its our mentality thats at fault. If girls were raised to have respect for themselves, wanting to wear an outfit like Ruby wouldn't cross their minds, wearing higab because half the country is, our mentality is off, largely I blame the parents personally. During the whole Fishawy thing, I was suprised neither parent said, I'm sorry for not knowing how to raise my child etc, and that my child had to be used as an example for this lesson, wasn't said, and the fact that it wasn't said, said a lot more about the dismemberment of culture and the independence of members in a household.

It kind of weird, we did experience more conservatism in general, but at the same time, we lost our morals...for example, back in the day, a lady used to wear those tight sleevless dresses and would not get harrased as she did when she walked down the street, now a lady wears the scarf and gets harassed as though she was wearing nothing...so which period is better?? (thats another topic) But the point that you make in my opinion, is not necessarily a good thing, yes we are more conservative, but we are also less respectful of others.

Okie, just as you tell me tv doesn't really mirror society, neither does higab (i may have just opened a pandora's box)...you judging society, based on the number of females who wear higab doesn't mean anything!! I could tell you 100 girls wear the scarf...so, what all I told you is that they wear the scarf, anything you make on top of that is assumptions, you will assume they pray 5 times a day, and all that good stuff. So, you are making some assumptions, that everyone who wears the scarf must be good, but let me tell you, its only a sign of how powerful and easy it is to dismember society...many people have started wearing a the higab simply because its "in", people do what is "in", without thinking of the consequences of it (and the spectrum of conformity is extreme). People are doing what is "in" blindly following conformity, without thinking of the consequences and responsibilities and following through with them, this concerns higab and many other aspects.

About the Fishawy story: "FIRST people don't mind commiting such acts and sharing them"
I'd say very few people. Those have always been there, they just have a chance now with whoever is controlling the media facilitating. "SECOND that we now have no problem airing them" There's a long argument here about who's responsible for what's being aired and how much people can do or are willing to do about it. "THIRD, that we have no problem watching and updating ourselves with this information." I believe that the majority of the people reject the whole thing and feel exactly the way you do. I can't comment more about the Fishawy story, I only heard about it from friends. Didn't watch anything. I only watch Jerry Springer. :-) (Bad joke!) Anyway, I agree that the media does reflect the society, but to an extent. It's not a mirror. Watch movies from the 60's and 70's. They were mostly about belly dancing, drinking, pre-marital/out of marriage affairs, etc. Even though I don't think many people did that, I have a feeling religion was somehow absent from the general scene. Ask your parents how many women wore hegab at the time. Not many I hear. I think the late 80's and the 90's witnessed more conservatism. The way I see it, the aughts witnessed even deeper religious awakening that you could clearly see in the young generation. There are many good examples. There are many bad examples as well as some of what you mentioned. When it comes to religion and morals, I do think there's a general tendency of going the right way. But, there are powers still trying to prevent that. When it comes to the "luring" Western image versus our Egyptian culture, I think Tamer hit the nail on the head. However, we have to also admit that to some people, the West represents the "system." I don't care much if we eat foul or pizza. I lived in Egypt for 8 years. I could not understand was people can't stand forming a line to buy foul, 3eish or a movie ticket! When we pray, we pray in carefully aligned rows. Very organized. But we only do that inside the mosque and then forget all about it once we're finished. I hope this is not what you mean by our Egyptianness! :-) (Another bad joke!)

really interesting topic here. i agree with a lot of things you guys said on here, especially the whole torn between being egyptian and being american. its sad that we try so hard to emulate a culture that really HAS no culture: American. what exactly is american culture? apple pie? baseball? nice house with a white picket fence? whatever it is, its nothing compared to ancient civilizations like egypt. in fact, if you ask most americans, half of them dont even know their heritage. at least we have one! i dont think egypts the only one trying so hard to become a mini america, just about all the other arab countries are too. its sad really... whatever great things they have here can never replace what we have as muslims anyway.

Inshallah I hope so, but i like to see myself as a realist, i don't vision Egypt being a major player in the Arab world anytime soon...but i pray i'm wrong. To clarify, Morsy, I'm not saying Egypt should close of its borders and ban internet cafes..when people ask me, do you consider yourself american or eygptian, i give them an honest answer, i have adapted the best both countries have to offer, alhamdulilah. I don't really belive in the term Egyptian AMerican, I am an Egyptian who is raised in America (although i have the citizenship, but thats another topic). I'm not against adapting, but if your going to look at the picture, then its only fair to look at the whole picture...if your going to adapt, fine, but adapt the morals and principles which will better you and society inshallah.

I agree with D. I just recently came back from Masr and I was extremely disappointed. Unfortunately, the qualities I used to pride in Egyptians have almost diminished completely like gad3ana (don't know how to translate that!) and ties to family. They are living this pseudo-Western life, and they have lost their roots and can't really be completely Western. The incessant question of "Masr or America, which do you like better?" is just silly at this point when they ask.
I miss the Masr with the 3er2esoos man (which I never really drank because I was scared of the communal cups the drink is served in) and the shawerma stand. Now it's like "how would u like you burger?"
Has anyone heard of 7esb kefaya? They're kind of an interesting group! Anyway, hopefully Egypt will see itself as a major player in the Arab world instead of a watered down version of el gharb!

I can?t disagree with you! Shame wasn't present throughout the whole thing which is an unfortunate thing that worries me about my culture. Catkoota, tell me how soon our 5000+ yrs old civilization is going to land us on the moon? Don?t get me wrong, I am proud of being an Egyptian and I use every chance I get to let others know it. But I also hate it when people hate the idea of copying from other cultures regardless of the nature of whats being copied.

Catkoota I couldnt have said it better...like you said that whole situation lacked shame and embaressement and I think that says alot.
Tamer, I completley agree with you on that point, although I do have to add that in some ways it is our own goverments faults for making it so hard for us to live in our own countries that we are "metsha7tateen" all over the world!

Its a problem based in ignorance I'd say. I lived in spain until i was 9. Having attended american schools, the content of the textbooks seemed to describe a magical utopia in the clouds. the math books used quarters and nickels instead of pesetas as examples. sociology books discussed the world series and american football, which at the time seemed so glamorous compared to our football. and disneyland just seemed to be a heaven within heaven. the place seemed too good to be true. i was apprehensive when i was told we were moving here. the us does a great job of exporting glamor. people want to come here and want to be like americans because of the marketing of america. the grass is always greener, and they dont see the hollowness or brainwashing of the people. they dont see the ridiculous live-to-work lifestyle. they dont see the society's lack of humanity. its easy to be seduced by the incomplete impression of riches without sacrifice....little do they know they already have the vastly richer culture and character. the tragedy is that all these riches come at the expense of happiness.

We maybe third world as defined by countries by the USA, but we are 5000+ years old, we don't need to reinvent the wheel, we created the wheel!!! Ok, I agree, the issue needs to be addressed, however, the manner of both parties and their parents wasn't one of shame or sorry...that in my opinion is different from 20 years ago. 20 years ago, I'm sure this took place, but there was a shame and embarassment, now its, I did it, so what, get me a contract or an offer for a movie. The fact that our culture has lots its shame in certain areas, is to me a sign of its dismemberment. I'm not saying certain topic shouldn't be discussed or the public shouldn't be educated, but in my opinion, there is a wrong and wright way to do everything, this may not have been handled in the best way.

interesting.. Let?s see.. catkoota, the whole fishawi thing is a chicken and egg problem. It happened b/c the society is unfortunately letting go of traditions and adopting western ideologies when it comes to relationships. We shouldn?t televise such things, but yet we can?t pretend like the problem doesn?t exist because IT DOES? and so I think the whole thing played out ok (it had enough air time to inform people of the issue, and yet it wasn?t stretched out; that?s in my opinion of-course).. 20 years ago, you wouldn?t hear about this; not b/c ppl had more manners/traditional values back then (arguable!), but b/c it wouldn?t have been an issue in need of publicizing at the time? I like to still think that we?re people of our own culture who hang tight to their ?Egyptianness?.. however, Egypt is a third world country, we have to look up to others (instead of trying to reinvent the wheel) but we should be more intelligent and selective of what we do pick up from them (ie: pick up work habits instead of hairDos).

Very true ya Catkoota. Looking just at the fishawi situation, You guys honestly think something like that could have gotten publicized like it did 15-20 years ago? They are not even trying to hide their mistake but advertising it on T.V. where the whole world can see it. That to me is scary walahi!

The impact of these shows will have are real (and places), thats why we have locks on tv for children to not have access to certain shows, thats why we have grown accustomed to certain things because we are used to seeing them on tv, and this is partly how our culture is being severed...I don't blame tv, because after all we are people, with minds, alhamdulilah.

No, Jerry Springer does not discuss marital problems, they discuss why mom walks around indecently, and why some father married his daughter...while there are shows on dish, where a woman comes on tv and discusses how her and her husband are fighting and he won't forgive her, and asking for his forgival on tv...since when do you share?? I'm not saying that EVERYONE in Egypt has lost sight of their culture, I'm not saying its the majority either...what I am saying, is the culture MAYBE at risk of being severed (depending on how you look at it). In addition, the show that televised ahmed fishawy case, is a show, but their is a reality behind it, which is FIRST people don't mind commiting such acts and sharing them SECOND that we now have no problem airing them THIRD, that we have no problem watching and updating ourselves with this information. And although you keep going back to the same argument that these are just shows and places, but these shows do portray society to an extent, its a reflection of what people see and do...maybe not for all, but for example, when you keep watching gays on tv and the media, they no longer become a big deal, you become immune to them in society.

Hey Hany- lemme clarify... like their imitation is done in such an EXTREME way...

There is no right or wrong way to be an American... but in some of their minds they are being "American" by going out and partying or letting go of their values... thats not really the definition of our lives right?

Catkoota, the Jerry Springer example is analogous to your example of the shows "which people come on and discuss their personal marital problems." As for the Fishawy story, do you think people have control over what's being broadcasted on TV? To clarify my point, how many people do you know did not think it was appalling or had the same reaction that you had? Are there people who weren't? Sure there are. But I know enough Egyptians who are proud of their culture and religion... I know enough of those to make me think that any generalization, whether it says "everyone" or just labels "Egyptians" with it, is unfair. If your original comment means that there are some who try to steer us away from where we're supposed to be, then I totally agree.

I complete agree with Masrawaya, and this can be taken to an Islamic level...we as an ummah, are not as united as we once were (that could've been a long time ago), but how many of us are aware of our history, how many of us can list 20 sahaba, as we can list 20 of our favorite singers?? When we forget our roots, when we forget our history (cultural and otherwise), what do we become??

This is a great journal I have to say, this has always been something that has bothered me. And I am glad to see I am not the only one. I see arab girls dying their hair blond, wearing contacts, our music sounding more and more western. everything moving away from the traditional culture that makes us who we are. I've always thought, if I want to listen to rap, I will buy an American rap c.d., I dont want to listen to some arab trying to rap! If I want to listen to Arabic music, I dont want to hear all the english addins in the middle, you guys know what I mean? If we all look and sound the same, where is the fun in that?