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The Deceiver


Despite my awareness of the power of subterfuge I still keep allowing myself to be a silent witness to its use by unscrupulous people who think they are too clever (but infact just selfish and blind) to be detected.

I always believed forgiveness was a noble virtue to be cherished. But I'm becoming increasingly aware that even forgiveness must have some criterias which it is bound by.

In Islam forgiveness is a virtue most often associated with Allah. We are all prescribed to nurture this virtue so my topic for discussion is two fold.

1- Is the ability to practice constant deception a disease that can be cured? Is a deceiver infact a victim of his/her circumstances and deserving of mercy or is the consistent deceiver not a victim at all but a mere weak reflection of a human being blind-folded and forsaken by Allah to find his/her way out of the darkness?

2- Should such a person be left alone to find his/her way out or is it still incumbent on us to help them find their way? Can we help such persons find their way out or is it just a case of whom Allah has left to stray none can guide?
 

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Login to find out (February 10, 2006 at 11:15am)
hey kids

was looking for a place to stick this, and couldn't find one that worked perfectly, but! since this journal is about desception, then maybe it works here.

Hypnosis is SSOOOOOO cool


(see hypnosis - suggestion and suggestability? kind of works with deception no? ) anyway thats all

i recomend everyone go out and get hypnotized asap.

fun fun fun fun fun

ok thats all salam
 
Login to find out (May 12, 2005 at 12:57pm)
The point is that every action has a consequence. That is a universal law. When people wonder why an innocent child gets cancer when he/she has clearly done nothing wrong people don't stop to think that, that also is a consequence of an action... a mutated gene. Some one in this child's ancestry probably abused their body and the consequence of that action is manifesting here with this child. I seem to be deviating from the point you were making perhaps, but what I'm trying to say is that NOTHING happens in vain. There is a purpose for every thing. Selfless, heartless, people have their purpose too. There are so many paralells happening within a situation, I mean lets take the protagonist of this post, our "Deceiver", the purpose of the deceiver is not only to evolve him/herself, the purpose can also be, as you pointed out, to guide others, perhaps by way recognizing the error of their ways as a warning for our selves, or perhaps not. We are all being tested at all times. As I always maintain, the purpose of life is to evolve, and we evolve spiritually through trail.
 
Login to find out (May 12, 2005 at 12:38pm)
Manas, Allah has said that he has created a perfect universe and anything that exists/functions within this realm must do so in strict comliance with these laws. There is a lot we don't know about univeral laws. Miracles that have taken place through out history are not some thing that is out of the realm of univeral laws as they seem to most people. Any thing that happens has to happen within the confines of these law, even miracles happen in strict observance with these laws. Just because we are not aware of it doesnt mean it cannot happen. I mean a thousand yrs ago if some one said they could fly in a plane or talk to some one across the world it would have been considered a miracle. But back then, we simply did not know hence could not imagine it.
 
Login to find out (May 12, 2005 at 12:32pm)
Sanila, in the end I guess we all must accept that you cannot make anyone change.. the change ALWAYS has to come from within.
 
Login to find out (May 12, 2005 at 12:30pm)
VickVega, Ertw, Unfortunately I have always found it rather difficult to let go of my "mother Terresa-esque" tendencies... but I'm working on it! Like I said before, even giving charity makes sense if it is going to benefit others... there have to be limits to selfless acts, esp when it poses a threat to your own well being... why give to someone who clearly will not benefit and .. you are in such a case doing a dis-service to humanity, and ofcourse to your self when your gifts of selflessness could be directed towards to a better and more deserving cause.
 
Login to find out (May 12, 2005 at 12:15pm)
Shazia I agree... most people who come looking for advice are infact hoping to get validation for what ever it is that they WANT to do... so all you can do is give advice and leave it at that.
 
Login to find out (May 11, 2005 at 11:09pm)
Have any of you guys wondered whether certain people you came across were put on this Earth so that their existence would serve as a warning to others....or a means for others to be thankful for NOT being them? Or maybe they are just here to test the patience of others.......and so why worry about whether they are being guided by Allah(S) or not? Afterall, they may just be living a dummy-variable-type existence and will not be punished for their misdeeds. Styx, were you touching on this theory in one of your earlier comments?
 
Login to find out (May 11, 2005 at 11:01pm)
As for "the point of no return," I believe that change is ALWAYS possible! It may become more difficult after passing a certain point, but one can always return. I don't believe in alot of the Western psycho-babble that focuses on justifying and explaining pathological behavior at the expense of focusing on a cure or devising a strategy for the ill person to recover. All of this rationalization and explanation debilitates an individual by leading them to dwell on the source of their problems rather than acknowledge an unpleasant past and move on. Unfortunately, any change must ALWAYS come from within. Once a person decides that he/she is ready to change, they will. But Styx, for you to wait around for an individual to change is harmful to yourself. You may care deeply for these 2 individuals that you are describing, but try to approach this w/ "tough love." I say, let them find their way.
 
Login to find out (May 11, 2005 at 10:51pm)
Styx, I can relate to your dilemma of if and when to give up on a person completely and/or cut them out of your life. I recently had to make a decision like that. The person had experienced a very difficult life and my initial strategy to deal w/ their mistreatment towards me was to rationalize, sympathize....and suffer. However, there came a point where I realized that this person needed the help of a professional--NOT mine. My advice, no matter how insightful, would never be followed by this person b/c they had not yet made the resolve to work on improving themselves. I made the decision to sever all contact w/ them hoping that my unavailability as a quasi-shrink will force them to really face and deal w/ their issues. Of course it is possible that they will just find someone else to listen to their b.s., but how helpful was I being to myself and that person by continuing to talk to them?
 
Login to find out (May 10, 2005 at 1:38pm)
Another name for a serial deceiver would be a pathological liar--and the practice of such is just that, a pathos. Lies beget other lies and unfortunately, people in this category have found ways over the years to become "good" at lying, or at least they they think so. It's really that it just becomes 2nd nature for them, hence the pathos. Are you responsible for others' afflictions?--No. Should we make allowances/excuses for the circumstances that led them down that slippery slope?--No. Everyone has a choice on how to live life--you may have a "disease" that you have to fight against, but it is your choice to take on that fight. Those who are left to be "witnesses" can't make that choice for them--you can forgive and be supportive of those who truly want to change/make amends, but you can't take on their pathos and you can't make them fight.
 
Login to find out (May 9, 2005 at 5:38pm)
To add to VV and Ertw's words I just wanted to add that the older I get and the more in one sense I have of other things, the less I have of time. Annd consequently the more precious time is to me - so i resent spending time with people that i don't want to, that are just acquantainces or friends that i realise i don't like. Even though i may have known them for years. Some friendships do have a sell by date and you have to know when to give up the ghost on it. It was at a moment in time for a length of time and then simply you drift apart or things happen etc. Like any other relationship, they go through ups and downs and I think we live in an era where increasingly friends are becoming what family used to be (Ertw had an excellent JE on this btw) but we've always believed and been led to believe that friendships are somehow magical and seperate from other types of relationships. Well they're not in my opinion. They're still subject to the saem stresses and strains. And there are people who you once were v close to but are a drain on you - and it's a battle. Then it's time to say goodbye - which is v v hard and i've only done once
 
Login to find out (May 9, 2005 at 4:18pm)
I believe in helping those who want to help themselves. Constant whiners/excuse makers will just make a lot of noise and do nothing about it. On the other hand there are some who complain to vent off steam, but then later do really try to improve. So it's those that we want to help out. And make sure you don't let yourself fall into the trap of emotional manipulation by 'down and out' people. Some are very good at trying to keep people listening to them via an emotionally manipulative sob story.
 
Login to find out (May 8, 2005 at 6:57pm)
Hmmn...as I get older (and hopefully wiser), I feel that I am becoming less judgmental of others but at the same time less tolerant of spending my time with people who do not bring positive things to my life. Of course, we all have our issues, baggage, etc. and once in a while it is healthy to lean on others and the true testament of friendship/relationship is to be able to be selfless whether it be there to lend a helping hand or just support. Notwithstanding, when someone constantly betrays my trust thereby disrespects the relationship, my reaction (which some may feel heartless) is to take them out of my life. I do believe in second chances, possibly even a third, but for me there is a limit depending on the nature, severity and frequency of the transgression. I believe people should take responsibility for their actions as Shazia pointed out so eloquently and there are consequences as Styx maintained. My perspective is that it's hard enough going through life with worrying about issues that you may not be able to control(e.g. politics at work, societal expectations, etc.)- why voluntarily take on the added burden of having to worry about trusting (abusive) people that you bring into your life socially? Best of luck with your situations- may Allah guide you as well as the people you are referring to.
 
Login to find out (May 8, 2005 at 3:56pm)
It is a case of Allah guiding but He can only help those who help themselves. As my mother constantly tells me ;) We all have a mind and our senses - it is incumbent on us to use them to our best efforts
 
Login to find out (May 8, 2005 at 3:55pm)
#2: Styx I used to genuinely spend hours listening to people and try to help them (I have one of those faces where people seem hell bent on pouring out their woes to me) and offer suggestions etc. I don't do that anymore, I just listen. I realised a few years ago that people don't really want help, they want validation for a course of action they really want to take and are not yet confident enough to take. If what you say doesn't match up to what they want to do, then they tune you out or mouth platitudes. Someone has got to help themselves - it again goes back to the AA moment below. All you can do is listen to the trauma and that is enough in one sense because how many of us, leading the busy lives we lead, genuinely listen to each other anymore? Listening can be, and often is enough
 
Login to find out (May 8, 2005 at 3:51pm)
As far as #1: Many people have had horribly dysfunctional childhoods/experiences etc but it is your ATTITUDE that determines how you will cope. Those with a "victim" or a "why me?" mentality set thmselves up for a fall time and time again. The ability to deceive is indeed a disease. What these people do to others though is nothing compared to the lies they feed themselves. Until you are honets with yourself about who you are and about your motivations and actions etc then there never is any resolution or 'cure'. It's the AA moment - the standing up and saying "yes i am an alcoholic" - acknowledging the truth sets you free and then you can move past it. It becomes your own responsibility and not someone else's fault etc
 
Login to find out (May 6, 2005 at 9:01pm)
and I agree that no matter how much you want to help you cannot and should not do it at the expense of your own dignity. If some one is a serial deceiver and their actions cause you harm, then perhaps its not worth the fight to try and save them. Every act of charity too should be carried out if it is going to benefit another. If you sacrifice your self for a lost cause then all it is is wasted effort. I guess what I'm grappling with is this, what is the criteria by which you judge if the person is on a path of no return? Blinded? Should it be based on history alone? where does believing in the goodness of humanity come in? Perhaps my greatest battle is within my self... to learn to recognize, and more importantly differentiate between who is worthy of your sacrifices and who isnt? Perhaps in the end this dilema of mine has nothing to do with another person's abandonment by Allah? Perhaps its simply an excercise for me to be able to recognize my own worth. O.K.. I think I'm starting to indulge in a bit too much "stream of consciousness-esque" type of dialogue here so I will stop.
 
Login to find out (May 6, 2005 at 8:42pm)
Manas I'm actually referring to two people here. One I know very well and the other not so well. So with the one I know well, yeah his family is quite dysfunctional. But then when we speak of psychological and emotional trauma, I think very few of us have led a life devoid of such melodramas. I recognize very clearly how the "messiness" of experience can create havoc and subconsciously influence your actions/behaviour, and I'm not minimizing its debilitating effect. However, how long can a person use their unfortunate circumstances as a crutch and as a liscence to cause trauma to another? That is clearly wrong. Messed up or not messed up, unless there is a serious mental disorder here with chemical imbalances such as schizophrenia, I don't think a person suffering from a personality disorder or other such psychological afflictions, can use this as an excuse to justify their actions. Explain it.. perhaps but never justify it. I mean if every one with a difficult childhood could use that as an excuse to justify their deviant behaviour then why would Allah create trial as a means of spiritual growth and evolution? I think it is too easy to make excuses for our selves and very hard to face the truth that every action has a consequence and if your actions directly affect someone negatively then you are responsible for their condition to a certain degree. One has to learn to live life responsibly. It is far too easy to ignore and run away and that is precisely what I mean by the grave danger it poses to your soul.
 
Login to find out (May 6, 2005 at 7:39pm)
Styx, how well do u know the deciever? do u know anything about their past....their history? maybe they've been psychologically or emotionally abused to have turned out the way they did. doesn't mean u have to put up with their crap. keep ur distance if that's what will help you maintain your own sanity. but make it a practice to remind yourself of the fact they are simply un-equipped and un-blessed w/ a healthy emotional foundation and Allah's guidance in overcoming the hurdles.
 
Login to find out (May 6, 2005 at 1:13am)
Hmmmm . . . I think there is a scale of sorts for the deceiver / mushrik. Either way you cannot change anyone of these people because change comes from within and by Allah's will. Mercy should be limited because you are likely to be harmed by them. They should be left alone and flagged so others may avoid suffering harm from them also. I think you cannot help them because it would just seem like another opportunity for them to exploit. Psychopaths, playas should be shot.