they need a lot more than TO. there are a lot of teams in the league with winning records WITHOUT TO.

They need T.O!!!!!!

Affirmative actions rocks??? yikes! thats a scaryyy scaryyy debate.... it turns me into a mean horrible yelling screaming unruly individual...


...... i'd rather you all NOT see that side to me.

SO KEEP POLITICS OUT OF MY POST JERKYS!!!!! :@


I see Tanveer anywhere and I cant help but plug the Pind. CHAK DE!!!!!!!!!

you know what Sohail? I agree... so if your comments were meant to upset me.. they dont! haha...

T.O is a punk.
He is a cancer.

Na Tanveer, its just the Republicans trying to keep us down.

For Sprewell fans out there, please read.
sportsillustrated.cnn.com

Agent2000 is the spokesperson for the NAACP hired by Jesse Jackson himself.

THANK YOU Special Agent... for turning my NFL post into a racial debate. :P but I guess thats what lawyers are for

The Kid: You make a great point about professionalism. I would not be allowed as a future lawyer to act in a reprehensible way with colleagues. Such actions would destroy my credability with other attorneys or if outrageous enough, get me disbarred.

In line with this, the athletes you mentioned were severely punished with fines and suspensions (in Spree's case the rest of the season). Their behavior was not tolerated. However, if they choose to behave in such a way that is at their own discretion, and they will be punished.

My point once again is ...Whats the benefit for these players to conform and buying into the "team" mentality? I would say thats a form of brainwashing so they dont see the biases around them.

Would a reasonable person say the owners are working in the best interest for the players? We wouldnt have a Players Union if that were true.

Are they hiring black coaches in the NFL at an accelerated rate? Or in any other league? (its happening but very slowly). Since you bring up business so much, is it good for business to have predominately black employees, with limited black managers? Do you have a black commish? Does the public get mad when that doesnt happen? No, they dont. Where is the outrage to that by the Joe Shmo fan? And whats taking so long?

I dont have an agenda, but yes I am highly aware of the racial double standard especially living in the South (not to generalize, its not that bad here).

An example, do you ever bother to look in the stands of college stadiums? Doesnt it ever give you a moment of pause to think.... "wow, there are a lot of black players playing, yet hardly any black students in the stands (let alone on the campus)." Same with pro sports. Just look in the stands and the courts.

With all do respect, I think sports is a reflection of our society. I think this "bad behavior" speaks to a larger problem, and its simmering. Athletes are more aware of these disparites and are getting frustrated. This is reflected through their words and actions. I think this is just a start. I think the NBA dress code is another example of a way to keep a lid on this simmering discontent. I just wanted to point out there is a deeper issue with everything than whats on the surface.

T.O. personally admitted he has an ego problem, which ultimately caused the suspension (hahaha, rosenhaus' answers were jokes btw). i kinda see what agent is sayin, but what about an athlete like iverson (i can name a few more, but he's prolly the best example). he's def. no uncle tom and has more street credibility and served time. in spite of all that, he is prolly the most popular active athlete today; he's not that arrogant (i mean, he could be A LOT worse), he tries his a$$ off to win (even in the 2001 finals, he admitted that his team - he said WE -aren't that good, but we got heart). You would never hear that from Owens. Lastly, Iverson NEVER puts down his teamates (he actually made it seem as though eric snow was a servicable PG). I understand an athlete tryin to get his with a contract, endorsements, etc., but at the expense of your team is just ridiculous. Im sure spree's agent is callin the wolves management everyday tryin to get that $21 mil/3 yr contract that at one point supposedly wouldn't 'feed' his family. Vince carter isn't an uncle tom negro either, he's just a pu$$y, who got his grass blocked hard by Wade on monday

I should have been more clear. What I meant was the teams that won (apart from the Pistons exception u mentioned) had star players with good players around them. Shaq and Kobe were stars but how many times did you see the cast around them come up with big game-winning/tying 3 pointers in clutch games? So the point was, no matter how big of a star(s) you might have on your team, you do need a supporting cast that is at the very least decent quality. You could send TO back to the 49ers right now but you wouldn't expect them to win a ring would you? TO & McNabb was a combo that even TO was salivating over (remember how he didn't want to go to the Ravens and play ball with Boller?). You do need a decent team around the stars. If you didn't, TO cud be a one-man team and catch throw block kick all on his own. The only reason he's a villain is cuz his last agent didn't file free agency papers, TO made life hell for the 49ers BEFORE that happened, then of course he wanted out but didn't wanna go to the Ravens (they had two big stars at the time and of course our prima donna here cudn't fathom not being the ONLY attraction), then Rosenhaus promised him a new bigger contract (remember Rosenhaus doesn't get a penny until he gets TO that new contract). Let me tell you right now, he can go to any team, get a big contract and be the only star on that team but that team will not win a championship. In the end, it's not about feeding TO's family or respect or any such cr& p. It's about Rosenhaus trying to be extra smart. Mind you, he does have major clients but none of them got what he promised them. Like a reporter asked him yesterday "what have you done for TO other than get him kicked off the team".. answer "Next question".

Reverseswing: The concept of "team" in the NBA examples you gave are the exceptions, rather than the rule. 2 superstars surrounded by speciality players. Like the Bulls (pippen and jordan), Lakers (Magic/Kareem) (Shaq/Kobe), Spurs (Duncan/Robinson, Duncan/Ginobli) usually win titles....as a Pistons fan they are a relative abberation. And who have won the titles in the last 20 years in the NBA might I add? Only 5-6 teams. Look it up. Lakers, Spurs, Rockets, Pistons, Bulls, Celtics (lesser extent 76ers). All predominately superstar laden.

As for the Marlins, their first championship in 1997 I believe was won based on BUYING the best players they could get, not based on "team" mentality...maybe you can make the case the 2nd time around.

As for the NFL, Cowboys (aikman/smith/Irvin) 49ers (Montana, Rice, Craig)... superstars. Thats generally how you win titles...you need to have talent no matter how much of a team mentality you have. Sorry but you are wrong. That may be changing in the NFL.

Bleach/RSW: You are both trapped in the mindset that athletes SHOULD think of team first. Whether or not thats the way they SHOULD think is up for debate. Neither of you have articulated why that should be. You have made it clear how it may be beneficial...but not to WHY they should think that way.

The point I am trying to make is who are making up the rules about team/winning championships? Mainly the higher ups like management and owners and the clientle they are selling to. All I was trying to say, is that when players break away with thinking in a herd mentality...people get mad and create villians just as Zaahir was trying to state.

The Jets have already started pursuing T.O. Good news for the Dolphin fans ... I guess.

best comparison, TO vs Dillon. Dillon also made life hell for the Bengals so he could get out of there. The difference is he changed his attitude and became a team player cuz he knew the Patriots won't put up with cr& p and that was the only way to win a ring. And win a ring a ding ding he did. He does happen to be black.... just to remind everyone, black sheep exist among the white players too, aka Kyle Turley.

hey Agent.. if the concept of "team" is such BS, then why do you think teams like the Pistons, Patriots & Marlins win championships while teams with superstars like Bonds and Owens lose. Even Jordan won when he had good teams around him (refer to days with the Wizards, even if he was a spent force. Or take Kobe for example, did he win last year? btw, neither Owens nor Bonds have a ring to show for their attitude.

TheKid: I think what Zaahir was trying to state is that people like Jordan, Donovan etc are Uncle Tom black athletes. While people like TO and Latrell are non-sell outs.

I agree slightly with what he has stated. Jordan for example in a senatorial race in NC between Helms and Gannt did not take a stand for Gaant, while Helms was a clear bigot and used the politics of race and fear to win. In short Jordan did not use his celebrity to do something positive. While he is entitled to his own private life and is a great businesesman and is playing the "game" of white corporate america to his advantage, when the time came to use his stature for something beyond his own selfish purposes of getting ahead...he did not do so. But we dont chastise him for being "selfish."

NFL, NBA (new dress code), need to have the toned down "black image" to appeal to their client base ( mainly upper class white consumers) to make their product appetizing.

Think about the penalties for endzone celebrations as another example. Do you really think it would be a big deal if it were Peyton Manning types doing something outrageous?

Having rouge players like Bonds thumb their nose at the media, or people like TO making ABC promos having attractive white women drop their towels, and jump in his arms...frankly scares the majority of America. Thats just the reality.

I love people like Bonds and TO that are outspoken and are greedy. They dont buy into the nonsense of "team" they play for themselves and realize people are making bank off of their flamboyance. So lets be reasonable with our analysis.

Token niggers include:

Michael Jordan
Kobe Bryrant Pre rape
Vince Carter
Donovan Mcnabb
Tiki Barber
Shaq


Basically any non threatening black man who smiles alot and doesnt cause any problems. Once you open your mouth and refuse to follow the program you end up villanized by the media. Some famous examples are:

Barry Bonds
Terrell Owens
Rasheed Wallace
Latrell Sprewell
Barry Sanders( Until Recently)

eagles should trade TO to the Falcons (i wanna see some fireworks when TO goes off about Vick running too much) and get a RB from them.

Alzheimers? I thought Grandma was a drunk????

this is one guarantee i wanna see the result of. also, if they were so smart and intelligent they wudnt be in such a mess. ,,, and what do u mean by token nigger? this isnt NHL u know.