Elysian,
I appreciate the fact that you want to follow the beautiful example of the Prophet (pbuh)

Idont think it was his example to stoop to name calling and mudslinging as you have done. In fact - in a well known and accepted hadith, he even visited the house of a lady who had thrown garbage on him to see if she was well.

Serene

p.s I dont think even those espousing tranditional schools of thought have any objections to women educated in Islam (and thereby referred to as Imam). China has several. We are behind in that respect.

No comment from RWABDULLAH, just as i thought, typical heretical guy with false ideas.

I can see that the deviant RWabdullah has refused to comment!...I would suggest that you go and learn from real scholars and Not make up things from your own mind!

You said that we should rely on the scripture (word of God)...Which God are you talking about may i ask and which scripture?
Also, you mentioned that we do not rely upon the word of man (hadith)...If you're not informed then the hadith is the word of the Messenger of Allah (Sall Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam)...It is Not the word of man as Allah testifies to this Himself in The Quran when He says, with regards to The Prophet, 'And he does not speak of his own desire, this is nothing but revelation revealed to him' (Surah an-Najm verses 3 and 4) Quran commentators have stated that this verse refers to the sayings of the Prophet, i.e. Hadith...If we reject hadith, then tell me, how would you know how to pray your Salaat? How would you know what nullifies your ablution? How would you know about the rites of Hajj? Or the rules of fasting? or even the rules of Zakaat and the rules of inheritance? These have been stated in the Quran and explained in the hadith by the Prophet, so when you reject hadith you infact reject alot of rules regarding Islam...
Ive given you some verses below to read and ponder over, and then when you reply make sure to reply with evidences for what you have stated ok...

'O you, those who have faith, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you dispute over a thing, then return it to Allah and the Messenger, if you have faith in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and more beautiful of interpretation.' (Surah an-Nisa ayah 59.) How can you refer it back to the Prophet if you dont believe in hadith???

'By clear proofs and scriptures, and We have sent down on you (O Prophet) the Reminder, that you can explain to humankind what is sent down for them and in order that they may reflect.' (Surah an-Nahl ayah 44).
This states that the Prophet has been sent to explain the Quran...how can you take the Prophets explanations when you reject hadith????!

'No, by your Lord and Sustainer, they do not have faith until they have you (O Prophet) judge what is disputed among them, then they do not find in their souls any distress at what you have decided, and they accept it wholly and completely.' (Surah an-Nisa ayah 65).
How can you make the Prophet a udge of your disputes when you reject his decison by rejecting hadith...because you cant find the decision of the Prophet anywhere else EXCEPT in the Hadith!

'And it is not ever for a faithful man or a faithful woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decided an affair that there is any choice for them in their affair, and who disobeys Allah and His Messenger, so he is indeed wandering far astray.' (Surah al-Ahzab ayah 36).

This states that when Allah and His Messenger have decided an affair then the believers do not have any choice but to accept the decision given by Allah and His Messenger, if you do then you are indded wandering astray, as the verse states, SO, if you dont take the hadith, which means you dont take the decisions of the Prophet in them, then wouldnt you classify yourself as 'wandering astray'???

It seems to me that you are of those who reject the hadith and only take from the Quran, you are not well informed in hadith methodology or with the science of hadith, as far as im concerned, and the rest of the Ummah, those who reject hadith are Not classified as Muslims.. :)

So to finish off, apart from the questuon i have asked after the verses i have quoted you, i would like you to answer the following questions...

1) When Allah says, "What the Messanger teaches you, take it; and what he forbids you, avoid doing it."(59:7)
what is He referring to?

2) Is it Haraam for women to pluck their eye brows to beautify themselves?

3) How can you follow the beautiful example of the Prophet if you dont take from hadith?

4) You said that Salaat is never forbidden for women..I can give you examples when Salaat is forbidden for men and women, do you have any proofs from Quran to say that Salaat is never forbidden for women?

5) Can you give me a verse from Quran that forbids us from taking hadith and from following the example of the prophet through his words (hadith) and actions (sunnah - which are also founf in the hadith by the way!)

I think this is enough for now, i await your response, and as i have stated, with proofs please, also, can you give me a list of classical scholars from Ahlus Sunnah who have rejected hadith outright? (i dont think you can)

Salat is never forbidden for women. It is not mandatory at certain times, but never forbidden. In Hadith it is forbidden and allowed (usual Hadith contradictions), but Hadith is not Islam nor Quran. Please quote from the scriptures and not Hadith, we need to all help our fellow Muslims and our Ummah. We need to not get lost as others have in the past and do what Allah wanted us to do in the Quran.

As for breasfeeding, La Leche League www.lalecheleague.org is worldwide and is very adept at educating and assisting families in breastfeeding. This help includes the Fathers (many who are hands off) and the will even go to your home and help if needed as well. They have publications, links, etc. There are many reasons when breastfeeding is not recommended, but many quit because it is easier to bottle feed, pure and simple; sad as well. As always, education is the key.

Lastly; no, everyone is not qualified to perform ijtihad (I myself have 2 degrees, 1 in Humanities and 1 in Theology and have traveled the world to study religions, etc.), but the bottom line is, think for yourself and rely on scripture (Word of God) and not hadiths (Words of Man) and your conscience.


Thanks.

Salaam

With regards to the issue of Dr.Amina Wadud, alot of it has been blown out of proportion and is a really misunderstood subject by the advocates of 'Women Imams'. Articles that i have read in favour of Dr.Amina have been presented by people who are not qualified to perform ijtihad, one only has to look at the credentials of these people to understand, regardless of whether the person is a professor or Imam, as being a professor or Imam does not qualify a person with the ability to perform ijtihad.

We all know from the hadith that Rasool-Allah (Sall Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) had allowed Umm Waraqah to lead Salaat, however this order was only peculiar to her, she was allowed to lead her household in prayer only, it is an order specific to her only and not to the masses.In the Usul of Islamic law and its legal maxims we do Not take a specific ruling with a general application. Denying the women the right to lead the Salaat is in no way demeaning to her at all, in the same way when she receives half the amount her brothers receive from inheritance, has any Muslim said that this was denying a fundamental right of hers? Absoloutely not, because this has been expicitly mentioned in Surah An-Nisaa verse number 11 of the Quran. An argument that has been put forward is that the Queen of Sheba was the ruler of a antion and that her nation was indeed a prosperous one, without a doubt this is true, but what one needs to keep in mind is that the Islamic Shariah which we have today through Rasool-Allah (Sall Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) was not around then, therefore those laws that were applicable in previous times may not be applicable today and may even have been abrogated, in response, the hadith states that a nation will not prosper under the leadership of a woman, this hadith has been recorded as Sahih in the collection of ahadith by Imam Bukhari and with regards to the issue of women leading nations it does have an abrigating effect. An Imam is a person who can be in the duty and service of the masses at all times, a person who can lead the Salaat at all times, the natural physical make-up of a women does not allow her to fulfil this duty as she has intervals every so often that make it Haraam for her to read Salaat in such a state. If any women were worthy of leading the prayer after Rasool-Allah (Sall Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) had blessed the hereafter with their presence then it would have been the Mothers of the Believers, is there any such report? The answer to that is an infallible 'No'.
Saying all this does not in any way mean that a lady cannot be an authority in Islamic law, women have reached the highest pinnacles of knowkledge in Islam and many great male Islamic scholars did have women teachers, however, with the issue of being an Imam in Slaat, this duty is just for Muslim males.
I'll finish here for now and would like to hear any response from anyone, sorry this could not be as detailed as i would have liked it to be, i am at work at the moment and time is restricting

And also in response to the question put forth by Ingenia, about 5 men and 1 women...the answer is, it is Sunnah for the women to pray Jumu'ah prayer and Fardh upon the men, if the men were new to Islam then it would be enough for them to pray their Zuhr Salaat, they can even make a congregation themselves and simply go through the prayer, if they dont know know the full surah's then they simply can read 3 ayats of the Qur'an in each cycle of prayer and ths will be enough for them, as for the women who knew more than them and was with them, it would be better for her to pray her Zuhr prayer behind the men, as the best place for a women to pray her Salaat is that place where only Allah and His angels can see her.

Wa'Salaam
Regards
Zafar

Well, here we are again, the protagonist of Women Imams, Mr. rwabdullah himself...theres quite a few things wrong with your article, i posted one on the other page about women Imams, mainly in response to what you had written... You're asking for an interpretation of rules, i take it you refer to the interpretation of rules in Quran and Hadith, thats fine, but the interpretation should Only be done by those qualified to do so, not by any tom, dick or harry...I just wanted to share something on the breastfeeding issue that you made a slight mention of, the following article was taken from the net, i think its a good read...:

So many women have given up nursing out of a feeling of powerlessness to get the baby to nurse. Because this is not a decision to wean, but rather the result of lack of adequate help, this situation cannot simply be dismissed under the heading, "there is no blame." Something is terribly wrong when Muslim women are giving up breastfeeding due to lack of education, counseling, and support. It reveals a stripping away at the postnatal rights of the Muslim woman to be in a state of rest for 40 days after childbirth. It also points to a fundamental lack of self-esteem in the mothers, that already at the age of 4 days old, she is allowing the child to make important decisions that will hurt him, rather than taking command of the situation and turning it around. If the child is rejecting the breast, the most common reaction is to try for a while, and then give up and give him a bottle. This teaches him that all he has to do is fuss and refuse to nurse, and he will be rewarded by a free-flowing bottle of formula. The only solution to this power struggle is for the mother to practice a bit of "tough love," to refuse to give the baby a bottle, even if it takes several hours for the baby to nurse willingly. (If the baby gets dehydrated, he can take water with a cup or medicine dropper). All this requires the support and help of the father and other family members, to allow the mother and child to be together undisturbed as much as possible for the first 40 days of the baby's life.

Many Muslim women manage to make it through those hardest days in the beginning and then give up breastfeeding after the baby is less than 6 months old. The most common reason given is, "I was afraid I wasn't producing enough milk." At this point, a lactation advisor could have told her to increase her own consumption of calories and to get adequate rest. Under no circumstances should she give the baby a bottle because this will only decrease her supply of breast-milk. But it is so rare for Muslim women to seek advice further than their doctors, who often do not give adequate help. Sometimes it is actually the doctor's advice to start feeding their babies solids at age 3 months that leads to problems. Only with independent research will a mother be able to compare the "fun" of spoon-feeding her infant versus the risks of premature rejection of the breast.

How can we help the Muslim women of today to understand that Allah has made her able to feed her baby with the milk of her body? She needs to read books about breastfeeding and understand fully the commitment she is facing. She needs encouragement to seek help from a LaLeche League Leader or midwife if she runs into problems getting help from her doctor. Help is available. Women who receive adequate counseling are often able to sustain nursing even after returning to work outside the home. Premature infants can and should be breastfeed for the best odds in life. In fact, women who have never even been pregnant can actually stimulate the production of breast-milk for a foster child through the use of a special infant feeding device. The ability to feed your child the best that nature has to offer is your choice. Only after a successful and long-lasting breastfeeding relationship can weaning the baby truly be done by mutual and conscious consent. It will not simply be a tragic mistake to look back on with regret.

Rules should always be revisted and constantly evalutated to ensure their interpretation and application are relevant to the society in which they are applied. Lack of motion and dynamics creates stagnation. The core of the rule will not change, merely the acceptance in society. Much the same as the 'letter of the law' versus the 'spirit of the law' does in the Justice system.

One peoples cultural influences and practices should not be considered to be the only possible application at the cost of another's culture. Islam is not a culture and should not be limited soley to one lands practices, politics, or interpretations.

To use this aforementioned topic of Women and Leadership, jsut because one society was patriarchical and treated women as less than equal to men, does not mean this should be the only way allowed. All throughout history and religions some of the greatest heros, warriors, leaders, etc. have been women. Our own holy book contains a plethora of praise and reverence for women. The Quran itself has more about Mary mother of Jesus than even the Old or New Testaments.

The beauty of Islam is that while it does support and demonstrate the importance of gender roles in society, these roles are not meant to be repressive nor the sole choice and destiny of an individual. Islam removes the chains of society and is all encompassing, yet many interpret things to thier own agendas support. An example could be, a couple are blessed with having a child. If the mother is a Dr., Lawyer, etc. and the husband is a retail clerk (as an example) the wise choice to better provide would be for the Father to leave his job and rear the children versus the Mother tossing away a career and profession that is more broad reaching and can help others in many ways. Sadly, due to "machismo" (for lack of a better descriptor) and a patriarchical influence, this is not only unacceptable to many, but would be considered shameful, demeaning or worse yet, considered somehow "un-islamic".

We all have roles and responsibilites in our lives and our societies. Male or Female is not, and should not, be the determining factor in the worth of the contributions one can make to the world. The world needs more strong, independant women as role models, Imams, Drs., leaders, teachers, etc. and less restrictions on their potential contributions to the betterment of a society based soley on a barbaric and outdated pre-judgement based on their sex.