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soroush
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has added a new journalpeace
wishing you all are well and in joy!
cant read 2/3 of the posts not connected to you-all - wonders of free-bee membership
new to Soroush - think i only read one article of his - can any one recommend some good articles any additional on-line resources to get an overview - like a reader on his ideas
thanks
peace out!
QalandarLal
peacethanks for the recommendation -- its not ur fault its quiet in here -- any interesting Tariq Ramadan articles to recommend??
4 my 2 cents -- go to law school and change the rules
peace out
Nababa
Reason, Freedom, and Democracy in Islam is a compilation of his English articles--it's good.Welcome to the village, sorry it's so dead in here.
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has added a new journal"Divine inspiration originates in a realm beyond time and space. Revelation is not the prisoner of nature or civilization. however, what could religious knowledge , obviously the child of human comprehension, be if not temporal?"
Abdolkarim Soroush, Islamic Revival and Reform
I dont think the aformentioned quote of Soroush is at all radical. To my knowledge almost any Islamic scholar, past or present would agree. Revelation arises from a realm beyond the human intellect and human constraints. Revelation has multiple layers of meaning, and its true meaning is the perogative of Allah and to those whom Allah has taught directly, as the Qur'an mentions, "those firmly rooted in knowledge."
Where Soroush displays his uniqueness is in the particular form of liberal pluralistic conclusions that he draws from notion of the temporality of religious interpretation.
Though the term liberal pluralism seems redundant and burdensome, its useful to describe Soroush, since a morel limited sense of pluralism is widely accepted among Shi'i ulama. For example,a muqallid can follow the ijithad of any marja taqlid, though at times the ijihad of one marja may differ and at times contradict the ijithad of another. Soroush's liberal pluralism differs significantly since scholarly credentials and training are not seen to be essential for the formation of a legitimate religious opinion. Wide differences in interpretation by laymen and scholars alike can be explained away not by the possibility of misinterpreation but by Qabz va Bast, and as a result the agency of Islam itself is weakened. I am unclear whether Soroush even theoretically allows for misinterpretation. That obviously threatens the Shi'i structure of religious authority which I think partially explains why he is the subject of so much controversy.
One may say that in fact Soroush does allow for theoretical misinterpretation, since his link between a temporally limited body of human knowledge from which relgious understanding springs, must itself be limited. So in fact all interpretations are misinterpreations. Well, again i would argue that this is not radical in itself. Muslims acknowledge that our understanding of Islam will inevitably be limited, after all, Allah, to whom we submit and seek to know is beyond comprehension. Effectively, I feel as though Soroush leaves us without any tools with which to judge varying and contradictory religious understandings.
One may argue that the absence of such tools is in fact, a blessing. The constant need to judge can in fact be problematic itself. Much of the New Age fascination with Eastern religion, and modern liberalism apparently attempt to focus on acceptance of contradictory diversity as an inherent part of the human landscape. While I agree, as Muslims we often fall into that trap of overjudgementalism, life requires a balance between acceptance and rejection. Tools for judgement protect Islam from becoming amorphous and without agency.
Nababa
Let me clarify, it's Soroush's critics and objectors that say relativizing religious knowledge amounts to trivialzing divine revelation, ie because our intellectual musings about them are afforded such latitude and are so changeable, it suggests revelation is incomplete and invoked conviently for legitimating purposes only. Now, Does the first point entail the second? Soroush doesn't find the relatavizing of religious knowledge degrading to revelation (This is totally fair and i think mostly accepted) and yet at the same time he holds that the development of extrareligious knowledge, (everything from scientific/empirical paradigm shifts to the influence of humanism) is meant to draw out in various ways, and at various stages of history, and to varying degrees of quality (again gauged by rationality) the eternal truths captured in revelation. So to me it feels like yes, saying in some way that human reason is supplementing revelation is problematic under the tradition understanding of religion and the role of revelation. Secondly as you know, he calls divine revelation "silent" (and I think hadith has to be included in this for both thelogical doctrinal reasons). Soroush seems to feel an immense distance, a great and aching chasm between our ability to understand the divine and its presentation to us in human forms. It is because of the uncanny ignorance of our interpretations (incorrect, but nonetheless the object of clear analysis that they are) that pluarilarism is justified. Because revelation is silent we again can't check any correspondence between our interpretations and the reality of the divine revelation but for demonstrated and reasonable links. This gives the overall impression that revelation is "true but rather useless", why would someone buy into the premise that revelation is true only to render it impotent---because he is in reality a kafir, but a shrewd and socially practical one...or so their argument goes...mhusain
One question though, if Soroush believes that the "Qu'ran, hadith, etc. only provide fodder for an ever shifting understanding of truth" then why would he say "divine inspiration originates in a realm beyond time and space. Revelation is not the prisoner of nature or civilization. " The latter quote seems to make an exemption for revelation; since it originates from a realm beyond the constraints of this world, it would be eternally relevant. I would think that for Soroush a distinction should be made between Qur'an and Hadith; the latter is not purely other-worldly as is the former.Of course effectively what you mentioned still applies since what is in competition on "the categorical basis of rationality" is not revelation, but religious knowledge and interpretation. Revelation according to Soroush, as far as my understanding goes, stands beyond human discourse; its religous understanding that undergoes "Qabz va bast."
If Soroush did not make this exemption for revelation and the Qur'an, he would fall outside the fold of Islam. If that had been the case I would expect that the religious authorities in Iran would not hesitate to label him a kafir.
Nababa
"I feel as though Soroush leaves us without any tools with which to judge varying and contradictory religious understandings. " I think this is precisely Algar's objection to Soroush: under S's understanding the Qu'ran, hadith, etc. only provide fodder for an ever shifting understanding of truth (pluralistic, relative, perspectival) that we choose to justify through an existing Islamic framework. Soroush, I think, would say that there is a definite if limited resource devigning correct interpretations- reason must be at the forefront, it must dominate discussions about any sort of knowledge, religious or otherwise. When Soroush talks about democratic pluralism you can see how idealistic he is being, how much he trusts reason to prevail in an educated and free society, he sees interpretations subject to strict competition among eachother on the categorical basis of their rationality. He leaves nothing exempt from this. For example, he calls certain statements from the Nahj al-balaghah "Pseudo Universal Propositions" because they do not contain reasonable arguments that we can be persuaded by, and on this basis he rejects their value as sources of religious knowledge; to him they are just like ANY other unsupported opinion, to be swallowed by the winds of time once the charismatic cache of the utterer has worn thin.
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has added a new journal"Divine inspiration originates in a realm beyond time and space. Revelation is not the prisoner of nature or civilization. however, what could religious knowledge , obviously the child of human comprehension, be if not temporal?"
Abdolkarim Soroush, Islamic Revival and Reform
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has added a new journalway to come through mobas!
i'm pretty sure the server is just experiencing technical difficulties as a result of the massive number of people who love/hate soroush and are desperately attempting to join this village.
...any minute now.
mhusain
Yup Nababa, finally made it, and my very first JE too!
jcw
Salaam, I agree sister, Qabz va Bast is absolutley his most inspiring work.